Author Topic: King Louis XIV  (Read 59360 times)

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Offline Mari

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Re: King Louis XIV
« Reply #90 on: April 07, 2008, 04:56:00 AM »
According to The Court of Louis XIII by Katherine Alexandra Patmore there had been many rumors about the birth of the Dauphin. These are some of the names mentioned richelieu, Pere Joseph (confessor), Comminges ,nephew of Captain of the Guard  and these have been explored. If cardinal Mazarin had been involved Patmore states

http://books.google.com/books?id=QU5BAAAAIAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=Louis+XIII&ei=2-T5R82HLJHCyQTvq5XKCQ#PPA302,M1
Memoirs of Madame De  Montespan by Madame De Montespan



In France, where men affect to be so gallant and so courteous, how is it that when women rule their reign is always stormy and troublous? Anne of Austria—comely, amiable, and gracious as she was—met with the same brutal discourtesy which her sister-in-law, Marie de Medici, had been obliged to bear. But gifted with greater force of intellect than that queen, she never yielded aught of her just rights; and it was her strong will which more than once astounded her enemies and saved the crown for the young King.

They lampooned her, hissed her, and burlesqued her publicly at the theatres, cruelly defaming her intentions and her private life. Strong in the knowledge of her own rectitude, she faced the tempest without flinching; yet inwardly her soul was torn to pieces. The barricading of Paris, the insolence of M. le Prince, the bravado and treachery of Cardinal de Retz, burnt up the very blood in her veins, and brought on her fatal malady, which took the form of a hideous cancer.

Our nobility (who are only too glad to go and reign in Naples, Portugal, or Poland) openly declared that no foreigner ought to hold the post of minister in Paris. Despite his Roman purple, Mazarin was condemned to be hanged.

The motive for this was some trifling tax which he had ordered to be collected before this had been ratified by the magistrates and registered in the usual way.

But the Queen knew how to win over the nobles. Her cardinal was recalled, and the apathy of the Parisians put an end to these dissensions, from which, one must admit, the people and the bourgeoisie got all the ills and the nobility all the profits.


Offline Mari

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Re: King Louis XIV
« Reply #91 on: April 07, 2008, 06:01:40 AM »
Sorry, I am having trouble with my Computer! If Cardinal Mazarin had been in the habit of visiting  Anne of Austria the knowledge would be very much known at the time. There were Spies of concerned Parties everywhere.  At one point both the homeland of the young Queen and the Pope were involved in encouraging an heir! As it was terrible pamphlets were published. I believe the version Madame De Montespan puts forward in her memoirs is the correct one. She of course is the famous beauty that was the Mistress of Louis IV and knew both Anne of Austria and Cardinal Mazarin..... She relates this story....

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Though ceasing to make a royal residence and home of Paris, his Majesty did not omit to pay occasional visits to the centre of the capital. He came incognito, sometimes on horseback, sometimes in a coach, and usually went about the streets on foot. On these occasions he was dressed carelessly, like any ordinary young man, and the better to ensure a complete disguise, he kept continually changing either the colour of his moustache or the colour and cut of his clothes. One evening, on leaving the opera, just as he was about to open his carriage door, a man approached him with a great air of mystery, and tendering a pamphlet, begged him to buy it. To get rid of the importunate fellow, his Majesty purchased the book, and never glanced at its contents until the following day.

Imagine his surprise and indignation! The following was the title of his purchase:

        "Secret and Circumstantial Account of the Marriage of Anne of Austria, Queen of France, with the Abbe Jules Simon Mazarin, Cardinal of the Holy Roman Church. A new edition, carefully revised. Amsterdam."

Grave and phlegmatic by nature, the King was always master of his feelings, a sign, this, of the noble-minded. He shut himself up in his apartment, so as to be quite alone, and hastily perused the libellous pamphlet.

According to the author of it, King Louis XIII., being weak and languid, and sapped moreover by secret poison, had not been able to beget any heirs. The Queen, who secretly was Mazarin's mistress, had had twins by the Abbe, only the prettier of the two being declared legitimate. The other twin had been entrusted to obscure teachers, who, when it was time, would give him up.

The princess, so the writer added, stung by qualms of conscience, had insisted upon having her guilty intimacy purified by the sacrament of marriage, to which the prime minister agreed. Then, mentioning the names of such and such persons as witnesses, the book stated that "this marriage was solemnised on a night in February, 1643, by Cardinal de Sainte-Suzanne, a brother and servile creature of Mazarin's."

"This explains," added the vile print, "the zeal, perseverance, and foolish ardour of the Queen Regent in defending her Italian against the just opposition of the nobles, against the formal charges of the magistrates, against the clamorous outcry, not only of Parisians, but of all France. This explains the indifference, or rather the firm resolve, on Mazarin's part; never to take orders, but to remain simply 'tonsure' or 'minore',—he who controls at least forty abbeys, as well as a bishopric.

"Look at the young monarch," it continued, "and consider how closely he resembles his Eminence, the same haughty glance; the same uncontrolled passion for pompous buildings, luxurious dress and equipages; the same deference and devotion to the Queen-mother; the same independent customs, precepts, and laws; the same aversion for the Parisians; the same resentment against the honest folk of the Fronde."

This final phrase easily disclosed its origin; nor upon this point had his Majesty the slightest shadow of a doubt.

The same evening he sent full instructions to the lieutenant-general of police, and two days afterwards the nocturnal vendor of pamphlets found himself caught in a trap.

The King wished him to be brought to Saint Germain, so that he might identify him personally; and, as he pretended to be half-witted or an idiot, he was thrown half naked into a dungeon. His allowance of dry bread diminished day by day, at which he complained, and it was decided to make him undergo this grim ordeal.

Under the pressure of hunger and thirst, the prisoner at length made a confession, and mentioned a bookseller of the Quartier Latin, who, under the Fronde, had made his shop a meeting-place for rebels.

The bookseller, having been put in the Bastille, and upon the same diet as his salesman, stated the name of the Dutch printer who had published the pamphlet. They sought to extract more from him, and reduced his diet with such severity that he disclosed the entire secret.

This bookseller, used to a good square meal at home, found it impossible to tolerate the Bastille fare much longer. Bound hand and foot, at his final cross-examination he confessed that the work had emanated from the Cardinal de Retz, or certain of his party.

He was condemned to three years' imprisonment, and was obliged to sell his shop and retire to the provinces.

I once heard M. de Louvois tell this tale, and use it as a means of silencing those who regretted the absence of the exiled Cardinal-archbishop.

As to the libellous pamphlet itself, the clumsy nature of it was only too plain, for the King is no more like Mazarin than he is like the King of Ethiopia. On the contrary, one can easily distinguish in the general effect of his features a very close resemblance to King Louis XIII.

The libellous pamphlet stated that, on the occasion of the Infanta's first confinement, twins were born, and that the prettier of the two had been adopted, another blunder, this, of the grossest kind. A book of this sort could deceive only the working class and the Parisian lower orders, for folk about the Court, and even the bourgeoisie, know that it is impossible for a queen to be brought to bed in secret. Unfortunately for her, she has to comply with the most embarrassing rules of etiquette. She has to bear her final birth-pangs under an open canopy, surrounded at no great distance by all the princes of the blood; they are summoned thither, and they have this right so as to prevent all frauds, subterfuges, or impositions.

When the King found the seditious book in question, the Queen, his mother, was ill and in pain; every possible precaution was taken to prevent her from hearing the news, and the lieutenant-general of police, having informed the King that two-thirds of the edition had been seized close to the Archbishop's palace, orders were given to burn all these horrible books by night, in the presence of the Marquis de Beringhen, appointed commissioner on this occasion.

 
« Last Edit: April 07, 2008, 06:10:19 AM by Mari »

Offline Princess Susan

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Re: King Louis XIV
« Reply #92 on: April 07, 2008, 07:25:48 AM »
Very interesting quotation from Madame de Montespan's memories. I 've never read before these claims, witch considered Cardinal Mazarin for Lois XIV's father.
Does the book contain also some informations about Luis's relationship with Marquise Francoise Maitenon and gosips about their sicreet marriage?

Offline Princess Susan

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Re: King Louis XIV
« Reply #93 on: April 09, 2008, 06:34:54 AM »
I am reading a biography of Luis XIV. written by Anthony Levi and in this book he says, that Queen Anne of Austria and Mazarin had a long-standing love relation (probably ended with a secret marriage!?) and Mazarin is the real father of King Luis XIV. Levi has some "proofs" for it (based mostly on homosexuality of Luis XIII. and his hate towards Queen Anne and on one document with false date, supporting that Mazarin was in Paris in time of Queen Anna´s unexpected impregnation).
Is it serious theory supported by any other historians with some credible proofs or is it just Levi´s wild idea based on a rumours? I am very surprised with this book and I don´t know anything about Anthony Levi - is he hictorian or journalist looking for sensation?

I have found out this book in one bookshop today. And according author's introduction Anthony Levi is historian, and profesor of french language and literature.  So if we can judge according this, he is competent in history. But I haven't read the book. Maybe I will buy it later because would be realy interesting to read it.

Offline Mari

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Re: King Louis XIV
« Reply #94 on: April 09, 2008, 08:50:33 AM »
The Memoirs of Madame de Montespan do contain a lot of information on Madame Maintenon also referred to as Scarron.. She in fact was in charge of the King's natural children by Montespan and in that capacity drew the interest of Louis XIV! He found her capable and She had an amusing way of conversation. Temperamentally she was very different from Montespan who although was considered a great beauty had a very demanding jealous nature and made scenes. Maintenon is conceded to have contracted a morganatic marriage with Louis around six months after his wife died. Contemporaries who knew Madame Maintenon had either the highest regard for her or had opinions like Elizabeth Charlotte, the second wife of Monsieur the King's Brother.

The bottom link is to a Book on line entitled Madame Maintenon and the other link to The Memoirs of the Louis XIV by Elizabeth Charlotte Duchess d'Orleans.

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The marriage of Louis XIV. with old Maintenon proves how impossible it is to escape one's fate. The King said one day to the Duc de Crequi and to M. de La Rochefoucauld, long before he knew Mistress Scarron, "I am convinced that astrology is false. I had my nativity cast in Italy, and I was told that, after living to an advanced age, I should be in love with an old ----- to the last moment of my existence. I do not think there is any great likelihood of that." He laughed most heartily as he said this; and yet the thing has taken place.
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If he had not been so unfortunate as to fall into the hands of two of the worst women in the world Montespan, and that old Maintenon, who was even worse than the other, he would have been one of the best kings that ever lived; for all the evil that he ever did proceeded from those two women, and not from himself.

Although I approved of many things he did, I could not agree with him when he maintained that it was vulgar to love one's relations. Montespan had instilled this into him, in order that she might get rid of all his legitimate blood connections, and might suffer none about him but her bastards; she had even carried matters so far as to seek to confine the royal favour to her offspring or her creatures.
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http://www.public-domain-content.com/books/Louis14/C6P1.shtml



http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&id=ehBsfjQqVZkC&dq=Madame+de+Maintenon&printsec=frontcover&source=web&ots=QnrRd0GJpr&sig=8kR3glKPtfTYBtn2w6ekvM_KZBE#PPA45,M1

Offline Mari

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Re: King Louis XIV
« Reply #95 on: April 10, 2008, 04:34:15 AM »
I would be very interested in the sources of  Anthony Levi for this Book! Would love to know what he uses? The theory that Mazarin was the father of Louis XIII is a very well known one. After twenty years of course there would be speculation and with Louis XIII preferring his favorites! Different Historians favor different views of this.  But I have never read a Memoir of that era that states this and some of them are very honest.
 From the Book " the Court of Louis XIII"  here are the events of the night Louis XIV was conceived...

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It was a stormy night when Louis left the convent to head for St. Maur. The tempest was at its height.  Rain fell in torrents and the torches spluttered and went out. It was a sorry night for the King's journey. Yet at St. Maur's was the king's bed while at the Louvre was neither bed nor supper in his own suite, for la bouche were absent. Then Guitaut, Captain of the bodyguard spoke up who was on terms of freedom with his sovereign. Why did not his Majesty stay at the Louvre sharing the Queen's apartment? But of such a plan Louis would hear nothing at first. but the flooded road, the sodden torches, the impenetrable night...Guituat spoke again, the Queen- and supper- and a bed. No, said the peevish King the Queen sups too late and goes to bed late for me. guitaut said the Queen would certainly accomodmate her hours to your Majesty's convenience. Louis wavered and Guituat spurred  his horse and headed  to announce the coming of the King. The Queen was ready with a welcome. There was shelter, food and comfort.

and here is the description also in " Louis XIV and the Court of France"  of his conception.

http://books.google.com/books?id=yBZGAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA80&lpg=PA80&dq=Mazarin+the+father+of+Louis+XIII&source=web&ots=O25aMruQLv&sig=rBgnYe7lRe036jlE4e1CFeolWUk&hl=en#PPA96,M1

Offline imperial angel

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Re: King Louis XIV
« Reply #96 on: November 23, 2008, 03:25:32 PM »
What books are there on this subject?  As for who he was, it is hard to say. A subject of the Duke of Mantua? Perhaps. But  a foreigner with a penchant for dangerous intrigue would be locked up like that and his identity protected so much? I doubt it. He doesn't seem important enough. As for a child of Anne and Mazarin's I doubt it. It is true that it might have been embarassing had they had a child, since it would have been a bastard child of a queen, not a King. Different sitiuation- there was always the double standard for men and women then, male royals could have bastards, women couldn't. But although a bastard would have been embarassing, I doubt these kinds of precautions woud have been taken (  prisoner and a mask). Seems like overkill- the child wouldn't have been that important.

As for a twin brother? Maybe. But what if something had happened to Louis XIV as a child or before he could have heirs, and he had been an only child ( nobody knew Philipe would be born at the time of Louis's birth)? Even if Louis XIV had had a identical twin, why would they have kept his existence secret from birth since Anne and her husband had no other children? They needed all the heirs they could get, and they couldn't have known they would have another child. They didn't know if Louis XIV would live to adulthood or have heirs, as children could and did die young then. Life for royals even was uncertain. Why would they hide away a perfectly legitimate heir, if he had a twin brother? Wouldn't that brother have been regarded as good insurance in case Louis XIV died before he had heirs or could rule?  Doesn't make sense. I do believe as well Louis was the son of Anne and Louis.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2008, 03:29:20 PM by imperial angel »

Offline susana

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Re: King Louis XIV
« Reply #97 on: December 06, 2008, 01:56:43 PM »
    Both LXIV and his brother Phillipe had the same dark exotic coloring of LXIII--Anne of Austria was quite blonde.
    If Anne had an affair with Mazarin, why would they keep two boys out as royal brothers and who in the heck would they lock up?
    Here's another thought: if LXIV was a twin, and they do run in families, how many of you know that LXV had twin daughters?
    It seems overdone to cover a man's face, treat him royally, unless his face is the problem--recognition. Who could be so dangerous to a king surrounded by Musketeers that he needed to wear a facial disguise?
    Also, don't you think the mask might have been removed on occasion to check for health, sores, tooth condition, and perhaps a hair trim? If the Man In The Iron Mask was ony an enemy why would it be passed down in secret from king to king ending with LXVI?jPerhaps in near darkness to prevent recognition?
    I'm redefining myself at present--any suggestions?

    Offline Lucien

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    Re: King Louis XIV
    « Reply #98 on: October 21, 2009, 01:04:21 AM »
    Je Maintiendrai

    Offline Mari

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    Re: King Louis XIV
    « Reply #99 on: October 21, 2009, 01:08:11 AM »
    Paris anyone? This would be worth going for!

    Offline Mari

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    Re: King Louis XIV
    « Reply #100 on: October 21, 2009, 02:07:53 AM »
    Madame de Montespan once said that Louis XIV did not lover her, that he thought as he was King he should have the most beautiful Woman at Court as his Mistress (paraphrased) which I always found extremely interesting and shrewd of her. Interesting because She lasted so long! But I came across this about Louis XIV:

    The Duchesse de Bourgogne being in the family way this spring, was much inconvenienced. The King wished to go to Fontainebleau at the commencement of the fine season, contrary to his usual custom; and had declared this wish. In the mean time he desired to pay visits to Marly. Madame de Bourgogne much amused him; he could not do without her, yet so much movement was not suitable to her state. Madame de Maintenon was uneasy, and Fagon gently intimated his opinion. This annoyed the King, accustomed to restrain himself for nothing, and spoiled by having seen his mistresses travel when big with child, or when just recovering from their confinement, and always in full dress. The hints against going to Marly bothered him, but did not make him give them up. All he would consent to was, that the journey should put off from the day after Quasimodo to the Wednesday of the following week; but nothing could make him delay his amusement, beyond that time, or induce him to allow the Princess to remain at Versailles.
    On the following Saturday, as the King was taking a walk after mass, and amusing himself at the carp basin between the Chateau and the Perspective, we saw the Duchesse de Lude coming towards him on foot and all alone, which, as no lady was with the King, was a rarity in the morning. We understood that she had something important to say to him, and when he was a short distance from her, we stopped so as to allow him to join her alone. The interview was not long. She went away again, and the King came back towards us and near the carps without saying a word. Each saw clearly what was in the wind, and nobody was eager to speak. At last the King, when quite close to the basin, looked at the principal people around, and without addressing anybody, said, with an air of vexation, these few words:

    "The Duchesse de Bourgogne is hurt."

    M. de la Rochefoucauld at once uttered an exclamation. M. de Bouillon, the Duc de Tresmes, and Marechal de Boufflers repeated in a, low tone the words I have named; and M. de la Rochefoucauld returning to the charge, declared emphatically that it was the greatest misfortune in the world, and that as she had already wounded herself on other occasions, she might never, perhaps, have any more children.

    "And if so," interrupted the King all on a sudden, with anger, "what is that to me? Has she not already a son; and if he should die, is not the Duc de Berry old enough to marry and have one? What matters it to the who succeeds me,—the one or the other? Are the not all equally my grandchildren?" And immediately, with impetuosity he added, "Thank God, she is wounded, since she was to be so; and I shall no longer be annoyed in my journeys and in everything I wish to do, by the representations of doctors, and the reasonings of matrons. I shall go and come at my pleasure, and shall be left in peace."

    A silence so deep that an ant might be heard to walk, succeeded this strange outburst. All eyes were lowered; no one hardly dared to breathe. All remained stupefied. Even the domestics and the gardeners stood motionless.
    This silence lasted more than a quarter of an hour. The King broke it as he leaned upon a balustrade to speak of a carp. Nobody replied. He addressed himself afterwards on the subject of these carps to domestics, who did not ordinarily join in the conversation. Nothing but carps was spoken of with them. All was languishing, and the King went away some time after. As soon as we dared look at each other—out of his sight, our eyes met and told all. Everybody there was for the moment the confidant of his neighbour. We admired—we marvelled—we grieved, we shrugged our shoulders. However distant may be that scene, it is always equally present to me. M. de la Rochefoucauld was in a fury, and this time without being wrong. The chief ecuyer was ready to faint with affright; I myself examined everybody with my eyes and ears, and was satisfied with myself for having long since thought that the King loved and cared for himself alone, and was himself his only object in life.

    from Memoirs of Louis XIV and His Court by Duc de Saint-Simon

    http://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/3865/pg3865.html

    Offline CountessKate

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    Re: King Louis XIV
    « Reply #101 on: October 23, 2009, 07:27:18 AM »
    I think it was Antonia Fraser in 'Love and Louis XIV', who suggested that Louis was not so completely selfish as this anecdote suggests - that essentially he felt guilty about having caused the Duchesse de Bourgogne's miscarriage and this outburst was a sort of defensive outburst.  It certainly wasn't true "that the King loved and cared for himself alone, and was himself his only object in life" - he was absolutely shattered by the death of Marie Adelaide and his grandson Louis, and Saint Simon rages for chapter after chapter about his fondness for his bastard children.  It is no doubt true that he was selfish, but it's hardly surprising given that from his birth he had been treated as the centre of the universe, and very few people tended to stand up to him - for example, the Duchesse de Bourgogne in Saint Simon's story did not appear to have voiced an opinion, and Madame de Maintenon was 'uneasy' while Fagon was 'gentle'.  I can't recall that Louis XIV ever over-ruled the doctors again with regard to Marie Adelaide's health - a shame, since they managed to kill her with bleeding, emetics and the help of the measles by the time she was 26. 

    I think Madame de Montespan was probably right about Louis XIV's love for her, but I'm not really sure she was in love with him either.  I've always thought Louise de La Valliere was the only woman who truly loved him for himself, insofar as she would have loved him if he wasn't the King of France.  I don't think it really proves that Louis XIV was incapable of loving, although undoubtedly he was inclined to put himself first - but he made quite tender gestures towards Madame de Maintenon for example, and as I said loved at least some of his children and certainly Marie Adelaide.

    Offline Mari

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    Re: King Louis XIV
    « Reply #102 on: October 24, 2009, 03:02:26 AM »
    I find Louis XIV one of the most interesting of the Kings of France even with all the material I have read I am still trying to make up my mind how deeply he loved! Favored yes.....planned great marriages for.... hoped for honor and glory for his sons..but he inspired an element of fear with that majesty! I note that Saint- Simon refers to the Duc du Maine as that dear son. But it almost seemed as if Madame Maintenon loved them and plotted for them and their titles much more even than the King.

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    For some time past Madame de Maintenon, even more than the King, had thought of nothing else than how to raise the remaining illegitimate children, and wished to marry Mademoiselle de Blois (second daughter of the King and of Madame de Montespan) to Monsieur the Duc de Chartres. The Duc de Chartres was the sole nephew of the King, and was much above the Princes of the blood by his rank of Grandson of France, and by the Court that Monsieur his father kept up.
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     With his Mistresses he could seem to capitulate at their tears but he could be absolutely ruthless also. As he got older he seemed to get more sentimental. I am in the process now as to evaluating his feeling for Madame Maintenon and hers for him.
    As I said a very interesting King!

    Saint Simon mentions (and he revered Louis XIV) that in his anger Louis XIV did this after The Duc de Maine disgraced himself in letting the Enemy slip away through indecision:   

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    All our army was in despair, and officers and soldiers made no scruple of expressing their anger and contempt. M. de Villeroy, more outraged than anybody else, was yet too good a courtier to excuse himself at the expense of M. du Maine. He simply wrote to the King, that he had been deceived in those hopes of success which appeared certain the day before, entered into no further details, and resigned himself to all that might happen. The King, who had counted the hours until news of a great and decisive victory should reach him, was very much surprised when this letter came: he saw at once that something strange had happened of which no intelligence had been sent: he searched the gazettes of Holland; in one he read of a great action said to have been fought, and in which M. du Maine had been grievously wounded; in the next the news of the action was contradicted, and M. du Maine was declared to have received no wounds at all. In order to learn what had really taken place, the King sent for Lavienne, a man he was in the habit of consulting when he wanted to learn things no one else dared to tell him.

    This Lavienne had been a bath-keeper much in vogue in Paris, and had become bath-keeper to the King at the time of his amours. He had pleased by his drugs, which had frequently put the King in a state to enjoy himself more, and this road had led Lavienne to become one of the four chief valets de chambre. He was a very honest man, but coarse, rough, and free-spoken; it was this last quality which made him useful in the manner I have before mentioned. From Lavienne the King, but not without difficulty, learned the truth: it threw him into despair. The other illegitimate children were favourites with him, but it was upon M. du Maine that all his hopes were placed. They now fell to the ground, and the grief of the King was insupportable: he felt deeply for that dear son whose troops had become the laughing stock of the army; he felt the railleries that, as the gazettes showed him, foreigners were heaping upon his forces; and his vexation was inconceivable.

    This Prince, so equal in his manners, so thoroughly master of his lightest movements, even upon the gravest occasions, succumbed under this event. On rising from the table at Marly he saw a servant who, while taking away the dessert, helped himself to a biscuit, which he put in his pocket. On the instant, the King forgets his dignity, and cane in hand runs to this valet (who little suspected what was in store for him), strikes him; abuses him, and breaks the cane upon his body! The truth is, 'twas only a reed, and snapped easily. However, the stump in his hand, he walked away like a man quite beside himself, continuing to abuse this valet, and entered Madame de Maintenon's room, where he remained nearly an hour. Upon coming out he met Father la Chaise. "My father," said the King to him, in a very loud voice, "I have beaten a knave and broken my cane over his shoulders, but I do not think I have offended God." Everybody around trembled at this public confession, and the poor priest muttered a semblance of approval between his teeth, to avoid irritating the King more. The noise that the affair made and the terror it inspired may be imagined; for nobody could divine for some time the cause; and everybody easily understood that that which had appeared could not be the real one. To finish with this matter, once for all, let us add here the saying of M. d'Elboeuf. Courtier though he was, the upward flight of the illegitimate children weighed upon his heart. As the campaign was at its close and the Princes were about to depart, he begged M. du Maine before everybody to say where he expected to serve during the next campaign, because wherever it might be he should like to be there also.
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    I think pride had a lot to do with the titling and marriages of his illegitimate Children as well as the need to control the Princes of the Blood and the Peerage.  from Volume I same link

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    The Marechal de Boufflers, who had defended Namur, was made Duke, and those who had served under him were variously rewarded. This gave occasion for the Prince of Orange to say, that the King recompensed more liberally the loss of a place than he could the conquest of one. The army retired into winter-quarters at the end of October, and the Generals went to Paris.
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    As to Louise de la Valliere I agree with you. I think She truly loved the King I only wish She had entered the Convent a little sooner the second time for her own sake.
    « Last Edit: October 24, 2009, 03:25:07 AM by Mari »

    Offline CountessKate

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    Re: King Louis XIV
    « Reply #103 on: October 25, 2009, 07:12:15 AM »
    Saint Simon was a brilliant memorialist but not an especially good interpreter of Louis XIV or indeed Madame de Maintenon, the latter of course being coloured by Saint Simon's extreme hatred of her invidious position and her promotion of Louis XIV's bastards.  There is in fact a very good reason why Louis XIV promoted his illigitimate children and intermarried them with the princes of the blood, and that was that Louis only had a single legitimate son and a few nieces to marry dynastically.  He was well aware of the problems of the Fronde and the need to keep the nobility under his thumb - Versailles was an instrument for doing just that as well.  He could not marry his illigitimate children into foreign royal families - he got a very dusty answer from William of Orange when he tried - but he could bribe the Condes and the Contis and the Orleans into these marriages.  Such near alliances gave them a much stronger cause to support the throne, and indeed the medieval Dukes of Burgandy had done exactly the same with their illegitimate offspring for precisely the same reasons.   Madame de Maintenon no doubt loved them (or at least the Duc du Maine) and promoted their interests but she would not have got very far if Louis had not had the same idea and a very good political need.  Saint Simon could not see beyond the fact that he was 'polluting' the royal blood lines with bastardy, and that the rights of the French dukes were being imposed upon, and he interpreted this as Madame de Maintenon's perverted love of Louis' bastards and her evil plotting to somehow pull the wool over his eyes.  But any studies of Madame de Maintenon show that although she did influence Louis XIV, it was hard work and he was no pushover.  If he wanted to promote his illigitimate children he did not do so because of his wife's 'plotting' but because he felt he had good reasons for it which were not to do with sentiment.  And possibly because he was fond of them, although as Mari says it's difficult to know how deeply he loved people.

    Naslednik Norvezhskiy

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    Re: King Louis XIV
    « Reply #104 on: May 06, 2010, 04:42:14 PM »
    One story about Louis XIV that is wrong is that he had a certain speech impediment and that by slavishly imitating him his court imposed a uvular r on standard French. Contrary to myth the uvular r only started to spread in the 18th century, and Louis XIV undoubtedly spoke with a rolled r, like an old French peasant from the province today!