Author Topic: Princess Marie-Therese, Duchesse d'Angouleme  (Read 86444 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Lisa

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 1464
  • Alix & Ella
    • View Profile
Re: Princess Marie-Therese, Duchesse d'Angouleme
« Reply #30 on: August 22, 2005, 08:49:49 AM »
The Contis are coming from The Grand Condé (Louis II de Condé (1621-1686). The first Conti , Armand was his brother...

Armand de Bourbon, prince de Conti (1629–1666) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armand%2C_Prince_of_Conti
François Louis de Bourbon, prince de Conti (1664–1709) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Fran%C3%A7ois_I%2C_Prince_of_Conti
Louis-François de Bourbon, prince de Conti (1717–1776)

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Lisa »

Offline Lisa

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 1464
  • Alix & Ella
    • View Profile
Re: Princess Marie-Therese, Duchesse d'Angouleme
« Reply #31 on: August 22, 2005, 08:56:06 AM »
I don't know about Madame Royale... :-/ As she was king's daughter, she certainly was HRH...
Here is a little bio in French:
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marie-Th%C3%A9r%C3%A8se_%28Madame_Royale%29
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Lisa »

Offline Prince_Lieven

  • Moderator
  • Velikye Knyaz
  • *****
  • Posts: 6571
  • To Be Useful In All That I Do
    • View Profile
    • Edward III's Descendants
Re: Princess Marie-Therese, Duchesse d'Angouleme
« Reply #32 on: August 22, 2005, 09:01:51 AM »
thanks for the info Lisa. I just wish my French was better!
"How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?"
-Sherlock Holmes

"Men forget, but never forgive; women forgive, but never forget."

Offline Lisa

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 1464
  • Alix & Ella
    • View Profile
Re: Princess Marie-Therese, Duchesse d'Angouleme
« Reply #33 on: August 22, 2005, 10:38:28 AM »
It's a real good way to progress!... ;)

Offline etonexile

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 1231
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
    • View Profile
Re: Princess Marie-Therese, Duchesse d'Angouleme
« Reply #34 on: August 22, 2005, 11:45:20 AM »
It's my understanding that in the French monarchial system....the various heirs of the king go down through his titles...Duke,Count...etc. They are all honourary titles....the gentlemen as such are Princes of France....

Offline Lisa

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 1464
  • Alix & Ella
    • View Profile
Re: Princess Marie-Therese, Duchesse d'Angouleme
« Reply #35 on: August 22, 2005, 12:17:14 PM »
Hmmm... Its is more complicated...
Exemple:

Jean II le Bon king of France (1350-64)
His sons:  Charles V, king of France (1364-1380)
               Louis I duke of Anjou and King of Sicilia
               Philippe II le Hardi, duke of Burgundy


It is very complicate,and actually I'm not an historian of the French nobility titles and its rules... Moreover, some of the kings has only 1 son (or even not at all!), or some others like Henri II or the Dauphin (1729-1765) has 2 or 3 sons and all of them became kings! :P

a good genealogy: clik on the dynasty you want: http://jfcampio.club.fr/RoisFran.htm
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Lisa »

Offline Prince_Lieven

  • Moderator
  • Velikye Knyaz
  • *****
  • Posts: 6571
  • To Be Useful In All That I Do
    • View Profile
    • Edward III's Descendants
Re: Princess Marie-Therese, Duchesse d'Angouleme
« Reply #36 on: August 22, 2005, 01:09:35 PM »
I wonder if Princess Marie-Therese ever met Napoleon III - he became emperor just 2 months after her death.
"How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?"
-Sherlock Holmes

"Men forget, but never forgive; women forgive, but never forget."

palatine

  • Guest
Re: Princess Marie-Therese, Duchesse d'Angouleme
« Reply #37 on: September 30, 2005, 07:54:10 AM »
Marie-Therese has not had many biographies in English; most of her English biographies are not very good, and sometimes contradictory, but they are worth a read.

Marie-Therese wrote an autobiography of sorts while being held prisoner in the Temple during the French revolution.  I think its published as her Journal, and may have been rereleased in the last few decades.

Imbert de Saint-Amand wrote two biographies of Marie Therese- look for his books on the Duchess of Angouleme, as well as his book on her sister-in-law, the Duchess of Berri.

Ernest Daudet wrote a book about her called "Madame Royale."  It is about her youth and marriage.

Alice Curtis Desmond wrote a biography of her called "Marie Antoinette's daughter."  This book is almost unbelievably awful, but does contain some good information.  

I believe Joan Evans wrote a biography about her, but I have not found a copy yet.

The best biographies are in French.  

The German website listed in this thread about the possibility of Marie Therese being switched with another woman after the French Revolution has an invaluable list of books that discuss Marie Therese, including various Memoirs of courtiers and so forth.  I would recommend using that list as a guide if you want to read more about her.  

Marie Therese and Napoleon never met, but he said that she was the only man in her family.  This was said in admiration; when Napoleon returned from exile for his hundred day last hurrah in France, Marie Therese was the only member of the royal family who attempted to rally the troops in defense of her uncle, Louis XVIII.  

Hope this helps....

Offline Prince_Lieven

  • Moderator
  • Velikye Knyaz
  • *****
  • Posts: 6571
  • To Be Useful In All That I Do
    • View Profile
    • Edward III's Descendants
Re: Princess Marie-Therese, Duchesse d'Angouleme
« Reply #38 on: September 30, 2005, 09:59:12 AM »
Thanks palatine! I didn't know that last part.

As I said before, 'The Lost King of France' is almost a bio of Marie-Therese, and 'Marie-Antoinette: the Journey' mentions her a lot too.
"How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?"
-Sherlock Holmes

"Men forget, but never forgive; women forgive, but never forget."

Offline elena_maria_vidal

  • Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 671
  • Fortis et fides
    • View Profile
    • Elena Maria Vidal
Re: Princess Marie-Therese, Duchesse d'Angouleme
« Reply #39 on: October 23, 2005, 01:45:33 PM »
I love the portraits posted on this site of Madame Royale, or the Duchess of Angouleme, as she was known after her marriage. The best I have seen anywhere!

Offline bell_the_cat

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 1678
  • I am he, who will bell the cat
    • View Profile
Re: Princess Marie-Therese, Duchesse d'Angouleme
« Reply #40 on: October 23, 2005, 01:57:32 PM »
About Marie Thérèse and HRH.  The important thingwas to be a child or grandchild of a reigning monarch. Until the death of Louis XVIII, Marie Thérèse had precedence over her husband, the Duc d'Angouleme - she was an "enfant de France", and he was only an "arriere petit enfant de France", i.e. the great grandson of Louis XV.

They were both present in the room when Louis XVIII died, and for the first time Marie Thérèse allowed her husband to leave the room first! As he was now the eldest son of a reigning monarch he had precedence.

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by bell_the_cat »
Never put off until tomorrow what you can put off until the day after tomorrow. (Mark Twain)

Offline elena_maria_vidal

  • Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 671
  • Fortis et fides
    • View Profile
    • Elena Maria Vidal
Re: Princess Marie-Therese, Duchesse d'Angouleme
« Reply #41 on: November 01, 2005, 01:31:02 PM »
 There are several rumors as to what went wrong with the marriage of Madame Royale with her cousin Angouleme (Louis-Antoine.) I always heard that he was impotent and that the marriage was never consummated. Recently, I heard that the Pope made them take a vow of chastity when they got married because they were first cousins. That sounds far-fetched to me; look at all the Hapsburgs who married their first cousins! Anyone have any information about this?

Offline Prince_Lieven

  • Moderator
  • Velikye Knyaz
  • *****
  • Posts: 6571
  • To Be Useful In All That I Do
    • View Profile
    • Edward III's Descendants
Re: Princess Marie-Therese, Duchesse d'Angouleme
« Reply #42 on: November 01, 2005, 03:41:08 PM »
I always heard the impotent story too . . . I agree that the alternative sounds ridiculous.
"How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?"
-Sherlock Holmes

"Men forget, but never forgive; women forgive, but never forget."

Offline elena_maria_vidal

  • Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 671
  • Fortis et fides
    • View Profile
    • Elena Maria Vidal
Re: Princess Marie-Therese, Duchesse d'Angouleme
« Reply #43 on: November 01, 2005, 03:52:48 PM »
It really does.

Offline elena_maria_vidal

  • Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 671
  • Fortis et fides
    • View Profile
    • Elena Maria Vidal
Re: Princess Marie-Therese, Duchesse d'Angouleme
« Reply #44 on: November 07, 2005, 02:01:59 PM »
Quote
It is the familly tree  ;):

http://www.madame-royale.de/en/picdat/tree.htm

There is a legend who said she was replaced by her sister, but it is the firt time I heard this story  :

http://www.madame-royale.de/en/index.htm



The legend of Spohie Batta, the "Dark Countess" is currently being put forth by supporters of the descendants of Naundorff as the reason why the Duchess of Angouleme did not recognize her "brother." It is not a new story, and was circulating during the Restoration. People could not understand how the sad, nervous, tense woman, prone to fainting spells, could be the daughter of the beautiful, charming, vivacious Marie-Antoinette. There was not the same understanding of post-traumatic stress syndrome as there is now, or survivor's guilt, common to those who are the sole survivors of a family disaster.

No one really knows what exactly Marie-Therese was subjected to in the Temple when she was in solitary confinement for a year. The "memoirs" she wrote there were written under the surveillance of a revolutionary spy; Marie-Thererse later disowned them. (Changing the "story" is also common to those who have been through trauma, as over the years they come to remember more that they blocked out and understand more about the implications of the terrible things that occurred in youth.) Before Mme. Elisabeth was killed, she begged Marie-Therese never to let the guards find her undressed or in bed. Since the guards would make surprise visits to her cell at all hours of the day and night, the 16-17 year old princess, Madame Royale of Versailles, would sometimes spend the night in a chair, terrified. (See Memiors of the Duchesse de Gontaut)

When restored to France and the Tuileries in 1814, Marie-Therese wanted everything to be exactly as it was when she had last been there with her family, which was of course, impossible. She was subject to nightmares and hysterical episodes when something would by chance remind her of her family's ordeal. She tried to reverse the gossip about her mother by her own excruciatingly correct deportment and charitable activites, preferring hospitals and orphanages to the ballroom and the opera box, but due to propaganda people by 1830 she was called "Madame Rancune" or "Lady Resentment."

She was haunted by the fate of her brother and never certain that he had died in 1795. A funeral Mass and day of mourning was held for her parents, but there was never anything for Louis XVII. But that is a subject for another discussion....

She never had any children due to her bizarre and unhappy marriage, but loved her niece and nephew, Louise d'Artois and the Comte de Chambord, as her own.