Author Topic: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions  (Read 60937 times)

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Naslednik Norvezhskiy

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Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
« Reply #90 on: November 27, 2009, 06:57:35 PM »
Do Apapa and Amama actually mean 'grandpa' and 'grandma' in Russian (or Danish, or anything else) or were those terms pet names invented and used exclusively by the imperial family?

To my knowledge only babushka and dedushka mean 'grandfather' and 'grandmother,' in Russian, but I'm not fluent enough to know whether or not Apapa and Amama might be equivalent to American colloquialisms like nana, poppa, gram, and gramps.
These terms come from King Christian IX and Queen Louise of Denmark.  I don't know if they are Danish in origin, but Constantine II of Greece acknowledged that out of tradition, his grandchildren refer to him and Queen Anne-Marie as "Apapa" and "Amama".
As a a Norwegian with a fairly good knowledge of the closely related Danish language, I can say that Apapa and Amama are not normal Danish terms for grandfather and grandmother. The usual Danish terms are farfar (paternal grandfather), farmor (paternal grandmother), morfar (maternal grandfather) and mormor (maternal grandmother). Apapa and Amama are children's renderings of papa and mama, the not very usual forms for "dad" and "mom", as far as I can tell in Denmark mostly limited to the higher classes (upper bourgeoisie and aristocracy), as they are foreign, derived from German (Papa and Mama) and ultimately from French (papa and maman). In TV Interviews, the present Queen Margrethe refers to her father Frederik IX as far, father/dad, and her mother Queen Ingrid as mor, mother/mom, like most Danes.

Apapa and Amama are what Christian IX and Queen Louise's children called their parents; and their children (i.e. the grandchildren) continued the usage - for their grandparents.

Offline kmerov

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Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
« Reply #91 on: November 29, 2009, 03:44:33 PM »
The children of Christian IX and Queen Louise called Louises parents, Landgrave Wilhelm of Hesse-Cassel and Charlotte of Denmark for apapa and amama, so it goes back many generations. Christian IX's mother was grossmama.

Naslednik Norvezhskiy

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Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
« Reply #92 on: November 29, 2009, 04:00:11 PM »
The children of Christian IX and Queen Louise called Louises parents, Landgrave Wilhelm of Hesse-Cassel and Charlotte of Denmark for apapa and amama, so it goes back many generations. Christian IX's mother was grossmama.
So the children of Christian and Louise didn't call their own parents this, but their maternal grandparents? If so, maybe it comes from French grand-papa and grand-maman?

Offline abbigail

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Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
« Reply #93 on: December 29, 2009, 10:13:42 AM »
Does anybody know any specific piano pieces the girls might have played? Referenced to in their letters?
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Offline Sarushka

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Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
« Reply #94 on: December 29, 2009, 12:07:28 PM »
The only song I recall off the top of my head is "Colorito." It's mentioned in Olga's diary as well as Anna Vyrubova's memoirs.

You may find more information on these threads:

What kind of music did the IF listen to?
The Imperial Family and Their Music
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Naslednik Norvezhskiy

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Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
« Reply #95 on: February 09, 2010, 02:41:14 PM »
I am watching "The Year 2009 with the Danish Royal family" on TV and hearing Queen Margrethe describe how the grandchildren affectionately call the Prince Consort grandpapa (and make pancakes in the fire place in his office!) in her speech to him at his 75th birthday I am sure that is the origin.

Offline kmerov

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Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
« Reply #96 on: February 12, 2010, 05:48:07 PM »
Yes most likely it comes from French.

In a letter GDss Xenia referred to Empress Maria Alexandrovna, her paternal grandmother, as An-mama, so maybe they called Alexander II An-papa aswell?

Offline TimM

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Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
« Reply #97 on: April 15, 2010, 10:56:36 AM »
I guess if they were living now, they'd be text messaging each other.
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Offline Michael HR

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Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
« Reply #98 on: April 15, 2010, 11:31:12 AM »
I remember when I was 8 I wrote a note to my Father, he was an naval officer and always very formal. I recall him saying that he did not accept memo's from his 8 year old son and was quite offended. Never did that again...

Even in todays Royal family notes and memos are common place.. Not sure why needed at the dinner table mind you?
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Offline clockworkgirl21

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Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
« Reply #99 on: April 20, 2010, 02:20:53 AM »
Quote
Not sure why needed at the dinner table mind you?

Probably just because it's fun. Even if it's innocent chatter you're passing along that could be easily said aloud, it's much more fun for a child to be secretive.

Offline MademoiselleAndrea

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Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
« Reply #100 on: December 11, 2010, 10:57:08 AM »
How did royals send mail? Certainly not by regular post... I'm especially wondering how NAOTMAA sent letters from Tobolsk.  ???
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Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
« Reply #101 on: December 11, 2010, 11:27:03 AM »
Of course the IF sent letters. Before the Revolution, they simply handed the mail to servants, the Palaces had a special "franking" stamp, showing it was Imperial Post and exempt from stamps. In Tobolsk, they had money which was used to buy stamps.

Offline MademoiselleAndrea

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Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
« Reply #102 on: December 11, 2010, 12:13:51 PM »
Oh, so they actually sent letters by "regular" post in Tobolsk. But how would they address a letter to Xenia's family in Livadia, or to Marie Feodrovna?
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Offline Sarushka

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Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
« Reply #103 on: December 11, 2010, 03:01:56 PM »
But how would they address a letter to Xenia's family in Livadia, or to Marie Feodrovna?

From Pered Rasstrelom:



Under "No.1", before the text of the letter begins it says,

Written on the envelope:
Crimea. Ai-Todor
to Grand Duchess Ksenia Aleksandrovna


There's more information underneath that but I can't translate it precisely without a dictionary -- I presume it has to do with the postal process and passing through censors.
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Offline rudy3

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Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
« Reply #104 on: December 11, 2010, 03:36:37 PM »
The information underneath:

Post stamp 9.10.17

on the other side of the envelope: Opened by War censor. War censor No.118. 29 Oct 1917 Tobolsk