Author Topic: Charles I and family  (Read 47908 times)

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Offline Prince_Lieven

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Charles I and family
« on: August 10, 2005, 03:47:28 PM »
I beleive this was requested, so here it is!

Feel free to discuss Charles I, Henrietta Maria, Charles II, James II, Mary, Princess Royal and Princess of Orange, Prince Henry, Duke of Gloucester, Princess Elizabeth and Princess Henriette Anne, Duchesse d'Orleans.
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Offline ilyala

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Re: Charles I and family
« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2005, 04:13:12 PM »
i read somewhere that during the civil war cromwell and the gang thought of henry as a potential king... apparently they talked to him and he seemed like a reasonable person and like he had potential to be a good future king...

unfortunatly he died young like his uncle (who was more prommising than charles...)
'loving might be a mistake, but it's worth making'
ilya


Offline Prince_Lieven

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Re: Charles I and family
« Reply #2 on: August 10, 2005, 04:51:46 PM »
Before he was executed Charles I spoke to Henry and told him he must never, ever let himself be made king while Charles and James were alive.
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Offline umigon

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Re: Charles I and family
« Reply #3 on: August 10, 2005, 06:20:06 PM »


Well, Henry must have been an obedient child, Charles also made him promise he will never become a Catholic, and Henry, even though he lived in Paris with Queen Henrietta and under the protection of his aunt, Queen Regent Anne of Austria, both of whom tried to make him become a Catholic, he died an Anglican!
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Offline Prince_Lieven

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Re: Charles I and family
« Reply #4 on: August 11, 2005, 05:41:33 AM »
I feel particularly sorry for Elizabeth. Since Henry was only about 9 when Charles was executed and Elizabeth was 14, the burden of looking after him fell on her. She was found dead in her room in Carisbrooke Castle with her head on one of her Anglican religious books. The sad part is, just before her death Cromwell had resolved to send her and Henry to live with their sister the Princess Royal in the Netherlands. with her death, Henry was left alone, but was soon shipped to France.

IMO, Henrietta Maria trying to convert Henry was an awful thing to do. Charles, her son, was furious with her, and it provoked a large family row. In fact, the only one of Henrietta Maria's children who ended up Catholic was her youngest, Minette, who was to all intents and purposes a French woman.  
« Last Edit: April 19, 2009, 05:39:42 PM by Prince_Lieven »
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Offline umigon

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Re: Charles I and family
« Reply #5 on: August 11, 2005, 05:52:10 AM »
Not only Minette, don't forget James II and Charles II, who was a Catholic in private and who would convert in his death bed!
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Offline Prince_Lieven

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Re: Charles I and family
« Reply #6 on: August 11, 2005, 06:28:54 AM »
DUH!! <slaps own head very hard>. Sorry umigon! I totally forgot about James and Charles. Looks like I was having one of Kim's senior moments!!!!
« Last Edit: April 19, 2009, 05:40:40 PM by Prince_Lieven »
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Offline umigon

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Re: Charles I and family
« Reply #7 on: August 11, 2005, 06:34:15 AM »



I suppose, because it is easy to forget about Charles, but James??? hahaha


yes, Minette was a French woman in all aspects!
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Offline Prince_Lieven

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Re: Charles I and family
« Reply #8 on: August 11, 2005, 06:40:54 AM »
Minette was Charles' favourite sister. some say she was the only woman he ever really loved. There was 14 years between them. Both Mary and Henry died in 1660, the year of the Restoration. Henrietta Maria outlived 6 of her nine children, did she not - Charles James, Anne, Katherine, Elizabeth, Mary and Henry all predeceased her. Not that she was a very loving mother, mind you.
"How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?"
-Sherlock Holmes

"Men forget, but never forgive; women forgive, but never forget."

Offline umigon

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Re: Charles I and family
« Reply #9 on: August 11, 2005, 06:54:27 AM »

She is not one of my favourite royals, but I think she is quite misunderstood and that she really had VERY bad press!


She was more a practical woman than anything else, but she did love her children. (I am not saying you said the contrary!). Maybe she loved them in an egoistical way, but that is something!


For example, abandoning Minette when she was just a newborn can seem something abominable, but it was a practical thing to do. Minette wasn't a desired child, product of the last interview between Charles and Henrietta. She was escaping from England when she delivered the baby. Escaping with a newborn baby was an awful setback and Henrietta, a practical woman as she was, "abandoned" her baby in order to escape to France. She knew Cromwell wouldn't dare harm her little daughter, so in the end it was safer for Minette to stay in England.

A less practical and selfish mother would have probably  remained in England with her daughter, standing in front of Cromwell no matter what would her fate be (probably the axe).

In my opinion, I think that she was so unpopular amongst her British subjects and she had so bad press, that we can't have a clear image of what kind of person she really was...
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Offline Prince_Lieven

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Re: Charles I and family
« Reply #10 on: August 11, 2005, 07:28:00 AM »
I entirely agree. I admire Henrietta Maria for making it as a woman in a man's world, not unlike Margaret of Anjou, wife of Henry VI. However, there were some aspects of her that the English did not like - she was French, and never stopped being French. She was a Catholic, and the English hated Catholics. Also, she showered the King with awful advice that he followed to the letter. Her advice might have worked if Charles was King of France, but as a King of England he was not the absolute monarch Louis XIV was.
"How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?"
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"Men forget, but never forgive; women forgive, but never forget."

Offline umigon

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Re: Charles I and family
« Reply #11 on: August 11, 2005, 07:38:36 AM »
Yes, I entirely agree. She was the most important advisor that Charles, and the most loyal aswell. But you can always see in both that practical way of acting - not always the best one, of course.

I can imagine Henrietta saying : " The Parliament is a pain in the neck for you, mon cher??
well, then get rid of the Parliament, Charlie!" Don't you?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by umigon »
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Re: Charles I and family
« Reply #12 on: August 11, 2005, 07:50:28 AM »
She never really understood the limitations of Charles' power, and though he should be an absolute monarch like her nephew Louis . . .  And yet she did care for her children after a fashion. there is a story of a French friend visiting her and Minette in exile in France. The friend found Minette in bed with Henrietta Maria by her side.

'This is my little Henriette,' the Queen said, 'But I have forbidden her to rise this morning because there is no fire.'
"How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?"
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"Men forget, but never forgive; women forgive, but never forget."

Offline Prince_Lieven

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Re: Charles I and family
« Reply #13 on: August 15, 2005, 06:36:25 AM »
Here's another little anecdote: When Henrietta Maria finally became used to her eldest son's lechery she agreed to see his current mistress and eldest illegitmate son. Queen Catherine was also present - so what a party it must have been! Henrietta Maria (the matriarch), Charles II (the King), Catherine (the wife), Lady Castlemaine (the current mistress) and James, Duke of Monmouth (the son by another mistress)!
"How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?"
-Sherlock Holmes

"Men forget, but never forgive; women forgive, but never forget."

Offline umigon

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Re: Charles I and family
« Reply #14 on: August 15, 2005, 09:25:54 AM »


WoW!

Where did you get those anecdotes from??


Do you know anything about Henrietta Maria's impression when presented to her grandson (she was only 40 years old when she became her grandmother!).?

And what did Catherine think about all of it?
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