Author Topic: The Yusupov fortune - what happened after 1917 ?  (Read 17364 times)

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Offline Jane

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Re: The Yusupov fortune - what happened after 1917 ?
« Reply #15 on: August 01, 2005, 03:14:38 PM »
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That they lived "elegantly" in Paris is not true.  They did not live in the "correct arrondissement", even though they had a charming but small little townouse, almost Tudor-style.


Oh, dear.  How terribly inelegant of the Yusupovs not to have lived in the "correct arrondissement," as you refer to it.  

Offline Forum Admin

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Re: The Yusupov fortune - what happened after 1917 ?
« Reply #16 on: August 02, 2005, 09:11:15 AM »
To be fair to AlexP, even today in Paris, some arrondissments, like the 16th, are considered "better" or "more proper", just as Fifth Avenue or Park Ave, in New York, or 90210, or River Oaks in Houston.

We can be most certain that given the Yussopovs were indeed the wealthiest family in Imperial Russia, the fact they could not then afford to live in the best arrondissment in Paris would not have gone unnoticed in the emigre community as a sign of just how far the once mighty had fallen.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by admin »

Offline Jane

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Re: The Yusupov fortune - what happened after 1917 ?
« Reply #17 on: August 02, 2005, 06:59:48 PM »
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And they are not buried in Ste-Genevieve-des-Bois in the sections that are the most elegant, where repose "les grands notables" but in a rather far more ordinary, almost "banal" part of the cemetery.


I should think they were fortunate to be buried in a marked grave at all, however "banal" or "ordinary" you  describe it, AlexP.  May I say that I almost regretted my comment to you yesterday until I read this statement from you in response.

Considering the precariousness of existence for most Russian expatriates after the Revolution--whether in Berlin, Paris, or Harbin--is it really necessary for you to impart such a judgmental tone over which particular arrondissement one lived in, considering nearly 80 years have passed since the Revolution?  Much less in which cemetary they are buried?

As I am sure you are perfectly aware, most Russian expats in Paris lived around the rue Vaugirard, the rue Daru, the rue Pierre le Grand, and the rue Neva.  While the 15e and 17e arrondissments may not have the "prime" quartiers as those that can be found in the more central arrodissements, they were and are lovely in and of themselves.  What constitutes a 'correct' is really entirely subjective, according to the opinion of those living there, as I am sure you'd agree.  What is is correct for certain old-money Parisians (Ile St Louis, for example) is not necessarily 'correct' for the literary crowd.  Would the 7e been better for the Yussupovs than the 6e, in your opinion?  

You hinted in other parts of the forum that your family fled from Russia after the Revolution.  Did you family live in the "correct" district of whatever new city to which they emigrated?

Most Russian expats all worked very hard to recreate traditional cultural lifestyles and did much less to assimilate into their new home countries, sometimes to their detriment.  They created microcosms of their old lifestyles--schools, businesses, restaurants, shops, clubs.  All this is very understandable and human, mind you, as people naturally will try to create sense and structure out of a world that seems chaotic.   Perhaps an unwillingness to come to grips with reality, or obsessions with appearances, is why so many of the emigres simply could not make a successful transition?

And as far your insistence on peppering your posts with French words and bon mots, whether you are attempting to drive home the point that you speak multiple languages (laudable indeed), or trying to appear superior, je ne suis pas impressionné.  As the French say.

Offline Jane

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Re: The Yusupov fortune - what happened after 1917 ?
« Reply #18 on: August 02, 2005, 10:05:58 PM »
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Allow me to correct your French.  You should have written "je ne suis pas impressionnée" because since you claim to be a female, you should add the proper ending to the verb. Unless you of course are transgender. Additionally, please check the spelling of the word "cemetery".  It is  NOT "cemetary" as you incorrectly write, but "cemetery".


Ahhh...Nothing like having to stoop to pointing out an opponent's  typographical error in an argument.  There's no finer indicator of adversial prowess.  Very well done.

Although you are quite right on my French...it's been years since I've had occasion to speak it.  Tant pis.

As for the continuing "importance" as you claim, of le bon ton...well...we will simply have to agree to disagree.

AlexP

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Re: The Yusupov fortune - what happened after 1917 ?
« Reply #19 on: August 12, 2005, 06:22:21 AM »
Perhaps know we can return to the Yussopov fortune.

Hikarushka, are there any reliable breakdowns or estimates of the Yussopov fortune before the war?

Considering that they owned tens of thousands of hectares land (I believe that after the Church, they were the largest landowner in Russia);

Considering that they owned, until emanicipation, tens of thousands of poor Russian serfs (I once saw the figure at 75,000, which actually appeared relatively small to me);

Considering that they owned in their near entirey the oils fields of Baku and of the Caspian and in the North of Russia;

Considering that they had an immense cultural patrimony under their control, the works of art, the furniture, the porcelain, etc.,

Considering their real estate holdings in Petersburg alone (they were a major real estate owner in the city);

What might be a reasonable figure?  I realize that Yussopov fils mentions one in his book but it just seem out-of-touch with reality;

Considering that they also had major placements in pound sterling on the Bank of England.

Regards all,

A.A.


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Re: The Yusupov fortune - what happened after 1917 ?
« Reply #20 on: August 12, 2005, 10:07:21 AM »
According to Jacques Ferrand, Felix made a list in 1962 (re printed in his book) of just the propeties they held before the Revolution and their values at the time. The total just for the properties is just over 50,000,000 gold rubles. This does not include factories, income, the theatre, art, silver, jewels etc etc. A rough modern figure would be perhaps $750 million to 1 billion. Ferrand states the family fortune before 1900 was the equivalent of $500,000,000 in gold in 1900 dollars. That would again be the equivalent of perhaps 7.5-10 BILLION US$ today. Not a trifling sum in any event.

Just found this for some comparison: The Imperial Court's expenses (The Minister of the Court's entire expenses)for the Coronation year of 1896 was only 13 million rubles. Construction of the Trans-Siberian railway, the whole thing, cost 86 million rubles.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by admin »

Offline lancashireladandre

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Re: The Yusupov fortune - what happened after 1917 ?
« Reply #21 on: September 28, 2005, 03:06:16 PM »
The family owned a THIRD Rembrandt !!which must have been left in the Moika palace, hidden with all the other wonderful pictures.Bet Felix could have kicked himself for not having taken that south not to mention more jewelry .......The story of the Widener court case is mentioned in detail in S N Bermans "Duveen".

Offline lancashireladandre

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Re: The Yusupov fortune - what happened after 1917 ?
« Reply #22 on: September 28, 2005, 03:11:18 PM »
The third Rembrandt was of a young boy.Has anybody any idea of it's current location?.

Offline amelia

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Re: The Yusupov fortune - what happened after 1917 ?
« Reply #23 on: September 28, 2005, 06:38:57 PM »
I  remember reading that the Prince sold the two painting to Widener, with the contract of buying them back in a number of years.  When the time came, Prince Youssupov did not have the money, then his friend the Hungarian philantropist Clouste Gulbienken lent him the money. Then the Prince went to NY to buy his paintings back. Widener refused to sell them on the grounds that the money was not the Prince's but Gulbienken's money. They went to court and the court rulled in favour of Widener.  I think it was miscarriage of justice.

Unfortunately I do not remember where I read this, maybe in Greg King's book on in Lost Splendor.

Amelia

Offline YH

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Re: The Yusupov fortune - what happened after 1917 ?
« Reply #24 on: November 14, 2016, 10:18:48 AM »
The Admin answered this correctly. But the story of the Rembrandts is larger and well researched for my novel hopefully to be launched in 2006. It is the story of these paintings from 1660 to 1942. No one knows when Nikolai Borisovich (the first one) acquired them. The exhibit book from the Pushkin's 2003 exhibit says "sometime before 1805." I place it during the French Revolution as he was in Europe at that time. How they got from the Moika Palace in 1917 to the NGA in 1942 involves the conflict between the Prince and Widener. I have studied the trial and all other available records. It was a typical Russian/American business deal where both were wrong in their motives, but Widener right by interpretation of the law. You will have to wait for the novel to get it all and judge for yourself.


Did you publish your novel?

Offline YH

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Re: The Yusupov fortune - what happened after 1917 ?
« Reply #25 on: March 17, 2018, 03:57:34 AM »
Paintings are in the National gallery of Arts in Washington. We visited them last in December 2017.