Author Topic: Fifth Daughter Claimant - Alexandra DeGraffe  (Read 52083 times)

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Offline Prince_Xander

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Fifth Daughter Claimant - Alexandra DeGraffe
« on: August 14, 2005, 01:31:19 AM »
Okay i read in a book all about Alexandra DeGraffe, does anyone else know of whom i speak? i certainly hope so, because i would like more information on this fascinating woman......
                          ciao' ~ Xander
« Last Edit: June 06, 2009, 08:46:46 AM by Alixz »
All this. . .and Nothing More . .

Offline Svetabel

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Re: Fifth Daughter Claimant - Alexandra DeGraffe
« Reply #1 on: August 14, 2005, 03:48:55 AM »
Hi!

Who was she? Could you give a bit more info?

Offline bookworm857158367

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Re: Fifth Daughter Claimant - Alexandra DeGraffe
« Reply #2 on: August 14, 2005, 09:42:54 AM »
She's featured in a book about Anna Anderson "Anastasia: The Lost Princess" by James Blair Lovell. Her real name, as I recall, was actually Suzanna. She was a Dutch woman who claimed to be Alexandra, the fifth daughter of Nicholas and Alexandra, born at the time she had a false pregnancy in 1903. Anna Anderson acknowledged her as a sister and wrote letters to her and her children.

The whole thing was very much a hoax.

Offline Svetabel

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Re: Fifth Daughter Claimant - Alexandra DeGraffe
« Reply #3 on: August 14, 2005, 09:51:18 AM »
Really? Well, now I remember reading something like that. Surely, a great hoax!

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Re: Fifth Daughter Claimant - Alexandra DeGraffe
« Reply #4 on: August 14, 2005, 01:04:44 PM »
Lovell is, I think, the only person who goes into detail about this person.  And Lovell is, of course, suspect.  But he based the sections in his book on the tapes AA made with the Russian emigre (can't remember his name) so obviously, at the time there were stories going around.

AA and Alexandra met several times and there are photos of them together.

I'm wondering if Alexandra's descendants (she had several children ) have undergone dna testing or would be willing to.  That would likely clear up the issue.  

I personally do not believe for a second that Alexandra would give up a baby.

Offline Annie

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Re: Fifth Daughter Claimant - Alexandra DeGraffe
« Reply #5 on: August 14, 2005, 07:11:20 PM »
Quote
She's featured in a book about Anna Anderson "Anastasia: The Lost Princess" by James Blair Lovell. Her real name, as I recall, was actually Suzanna. She was a Dutch woman who claimed to be Alexandra, the fifth daughter of Nicholas and Alexandra, born at the time she had a false pregnancy in 1903. Anna Anderson acknowledged her as a sister and wrote letters to her and her children.

The whole thing was very much a hoax.

Yeah, they were 'sisters' all right, sisters in faking being Romanov daughters!;)

Didn't someone else pretend to yet another daughter born in Ekaterinburg (When Alexandra was 46 and no mention was made in her diary?)
« Last Edit: June 06, 2009, 08:50:26 AM by Alixz »

Offline AGRBear

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Re: Fifth Daughter Claimant - Alexandra DeGraffe
« Reply #6 on: August 16, 2005, 06:30:54 PM »

Meanwhile,  I'm curious about what the book has told about Alexandra.

AGRBear

« Last Edit: June 06, 2009, 08:51:50 AM by Alixz »
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

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Offline RealAnastasia

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Re: Fifth Daughter Claimant - Alexandra DeGraffe
« Reply #7 on: August 16, 2005, 09:21:53 PM »
Dear Bear:

                      I couldn't send you the big pot of honey promised, so I would tell you a little about Suzana/Alexandra De Graaf. I read her story in James Blair Lovell book...and I laughed a big deal after I finished it.

                           Alexandra De Graaf was a Dutch woman who claimed to be the 5th. Nicholas and Alexandra's daughter. She always assured to be born in 1903, before Alexei, when the Tsaritsa had an hysterical pregnancy or a miscarriage . This Dutch woman said Alexandra didn't had any miscarriage: she was born, and when the doctors saw she was a girl, she was "robbed" by Philippe Vachot, for he has predicted that Tsaritsa's last baby would be a boy. She was given to a Dutch man and was raised in the Netherlands. She had some objects from Russia that she showed to everybody, and she claimed to have visited the Tsar and Olga Nicoleivna when they were travelling in Vienna. (But there is no record available to demostrate that the Tsar made this trip). Suzana De Graaf claimed to be the lost 5th daughter only in the 50's. She visited Anna Anderson at Unterlenghenhard, and she believed she was her sister. They wrote to each other for years.

Anna Anderson believed in her claim, but not all her supporters did. Dominique Auclères, the lady who supported AA for years in her famous articles to "Le Figaro" (she was a very serious jounralist, very respected in France) wrote an article to said that this Dutch woman claim was a fraud. Perhaps AA needed someone who she could feel as her "family"...I mean a little affection.

Suzana De Graaf who was a chyromantic, died from a heart attack in November,25 of 1968. She was convertized to Catholicism .

 Blair Lovell travelled to the Netherlands to interview Suzana's family, and to know if they really believed her claims. Her relatives didn't know who Suzana really was, and seemed to have their serious doubts about it. Lovell who seemed to believe absolutely ALL that AA uttered to amuse herself and fool other people, saw in one of the Suzana De Graaf daughter's, Jeannette and was shoked for he found she was very similar in features to Alexandra Feodorovna. Blair Lovell's also includes a pic of Mrs. De Graaf, who, she believes, is very similar to Tatiana Nicolaievna. Yes...I can also see the ressemblance, but the pic is very blurred and she could have been anyone.(If you want, I may send it to you to post it here)

The story is too far fetched to believe in it. ..And Lovell devoted all the last part of her book to this claimant...He even travelled right to Doorn (she lived there) TO INTERVIEW MR.Van Weelden, Alexandra De Graaf's son. Poor Jimmy! After reading his "De Graaf Story" I felt sorry for him.  :'(

RealAnastasia.

P.S:The putative Mrs. De Graaf father's, was Leendert Johannes Hemmes, who was an "urine observer"  ::) , a kind of chyromantic skill that allow people to "read" what kind of diesease a person had, observing the urine of the patient. After in life, Suzana married a man nammed Anton Von Weelden, and after it, she divorced and married Jan Barend De Graaf.  



 

Offline etonexile

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Re: Fifth Daughter Claimant - Alexandra DeGraffe
« Reply #8 on: August 16, 2005, 09:47:51 PM »
Yes...it's DNA testing time again.....sheeesh...

Offline xX_Mashka_Xx

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Re: Fifth Daughter Claimant - Alexandra DeGraffe
« Reply #9 on: August 23, 2005, 09:24:35 AM »
Alexandra De Graffe story is ridiculous. I find it extremely hard to believe that Alexandra would give up a baby.

Offline RealAnastasia

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Re: Fifth Daughter Claimant - Alexandra DeGraffe
« Reply #10 on: August 23, 2005, 11:32:48 PM »
I don't think this story could be a bit of truth in it. However, in history you NEVER would write the words "ridiculous" and "hard to believe". It could be that some years later you'll find the story it's 100% the truth. I don't believe that this one will be really true. But, be careful. History it's a very careful subject.  :(

RealAnastasia.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2009, 08:53:54 AM by Alixz »

Offline Halinka

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Re: Fifth Daughter Claimant - Alexandra DeGraffe
« Reply #11 on: June 18, 2008, 06:26:48 PM »
Has anyone ever heard of this story? They are claims that instead of miscarriange Alexandra had given birth to a 5th daughter named Susan De Garrieff and gave away because the gender of the child. Anna anderson had met this women claiming her as her sister.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2009, 08:54:36 AM by Alixz »

Offline Michael HR

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Re: Fifth Daughter Claimant - Alexandra DeGraffe
« Reply #12 on: June 19, 2008, 03:08:35 AM »
The thought of the empress giving away a child born to her and the Tsar is no doubt made up. why on earth woudl she do this, people would have known and people would have asked where the child had gone.

Any thing AA said canot be beleived.

The Tsarina may have been many things but an uncaring mother was not one of them
Remembering the Imperial Corps Des Pages - The Spirit of Imperial Russia


Offline mansotogracia

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Re: Fifth Daughter Claimant - Alexandra DeGraffe
« Reply #13 on: June 19, 2008, 08:11:36 AM »
Hello everybody!

Certainly, I must agree that this is one of the most ridiculous survivor stories I ever heard. Not only the Empress and Emperor were loving and caring parents that will never gave their child away, no matter how dissapointed because of its gender, but AA, in my opinion met anyone with the slightest interest in her story.

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Re: Fifth Daughter Claimant - Alexandra DeGraffe
« Reply #14 on: June 19, 2008, 01:13:41 PM »
Re: 5th Romanov Daughter:   Somewhere in my collection, I have a copy of James Blair Lovell's , "Anastasia, the Lost Princess."  He devotes a considerable section/s to this topic, including interviews/personal contacts with the son (especially) and, I believe, the daughter of this person.  All sorts of unheard-of minutiae are recounted, including a stack of "Court Roubles" (an allegedly specific paper ruble of which no one has ever heard). etc.  Of course, Blair Lovell is also, in this same book, the author of the infamous "recounting" of the "King Kong" episode allegedly told to him in the lobby of a Virginia movie theater by "Anna Anderson," which I have heard that near his death he basically admitted that it was not true.  Thus, all-in-all, his book is generally agreed to NOT be a serious/trustworthy source.  Bear this in mind if you consult it.   AP.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2009, 08:55:34 AM by Alixz »