Author Topic: Fifth Daughter Claimant - Alexandra DeGraffe  (Read 47032 times)

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Offline imperial angel

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Re: Fifth Daughter Claimant - Alexandra DeGraffe
« Reply #15 on: June 19, 2008, 05:18:12 PM »
To my knowledge, his is the only book that mentions it- and it is defintely inaccurate.

Offline Zecharia

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Re: Fifth Daughter Claimant - Alexandra DeGraffe
« Reply #16 on: June 23, 2008, 12:12:57 AM »
Has anyone ever herd of this story? They are claims that instead of miscarriange Alexander had given birth to a 5th daughter named Susan De Garrieff and gave away because the gender of the child. Anna anderson had met this women claiming her as her sister.
In which year was 5th daughter born?

Offline Nikl

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Re: Fifth Daughter Claimant - Alexandra DeGraffe
« Reply #17 on: June 23, 2008, 12:25:49 AM »
Has anyone ever herd of this story? They are claims that instead of miscarriange Alexander had given birth to a 5th daughter named Susan De Garrieff and gave away because the gender of the child. Anna anderson had met this women claiming her as her sister.
In which year was 5th daughter born?

De Graaff, who later called herself "Princess Alexandra," claimed that she had actually been born in 1903, the year that Tsarina Alexandra experienced either a "hysterical pregnancy" or a miscarriage. According to letters and diary entries by the family that were later published, Alexandra did not give birth to a child in 1903.[3] However, de Graaff claimed that because Nicholas and Alexandra already had four daughters and there was pressure upon them to produce a male heir to the throne, they decided to place their supposed fifth daughter with adoptive parents. Philippe Vachot, a doctor and "holy man" at the Imperial court from Lyon, France, supposedly arranged for the baby to go to Hemmes.[4] De Graaff's claims are seen as plausible by some because Vachot was supposedly hired by the Romanovs at a time when they were desperate for a male heir, pursuant to his claims to be able to influence the sex of children at an early stage of pregnancy. Accordingly, when the fifth girl, later to become de Graaff, was supposedly born on September 1, 1903, Vachot had motive to secret the child away and claim that the Tsarina had not in fact been pregnant. Her pregnancy had been previously reported in the European press.

In 1905, several months after the August 1904 birth of Tsarevich Alexei Nikolaevich of Russia, Vachot returned to France a rich man, having been generously compensated by the Romanovs.

De Graaff told the London Telegraph in October 1968 that Hemmes told her the truth about her origins in 1937. At that time she received her dowry from the Romanovs: five million rubles, a cloth belonging to the crown jewels, china and "trinkets." Hemmes supposedly told her that he had received "hush money" from the Romanovs to stay quiet about his daughter's true origins. An intriguing side note to the story is that Hemmes, who came from a poor family and was himself impoverished, was able in 1919 to build a luxurious home for his family in Rotterdam, which he later lost through incompetent business dealings. Moreover, Suzanna de Graaff left the paper rubles she claimed to have received as a dowry to her three children, one of whom, Anton van Weelden (de Graaff was married twice, producing van Weelden from the first marriage and twin daughters from the second), showed his portion to reporter James Lovell in 1989. Lovell reported in his book "Anastasia: The Lost Princess" (St. Martin's Press, 1991) that the pre-revolutionary rubles shown to him by van Weelden had apparently never been circulated; they were new, still crisp and in numerically sequential order.

Anderson told the London Telegraph that she accepted De Graaff as her sister. The two women first met in Germany in about 1950 and exchanged letters.[5] De Graaff's sister Adriana Hemmes rejected de Graaff's claim to be a fifth daughter of Nicholas and Alexandra as completely false and was estranged from de Graaff in their later years.[6] De Graaff died of a heart attack in November 1968.[7]

It should be noted that de Graaff never tried to capitalize on her claims, and in fact made them public only weeks before her death.

Offline Zecharia

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Re: Fifth Daughter Claimant - Alexandra DeGraffe
« Reply #18 on: June 28, 2008, 07:13:29 AM »
The thought of the empress giving away a child born to her and the Tsar is no doubt made up. why on earth would she do this, people would have known and people would have asked where the child had gone.

Any thing AA said cannot be believed.

The Tsarina may have been many things but an uncaring mother was not one of them
If this child was unwanted, it is possibility that would not be the czar child?
Sorry about my bad English :-[
« Last Edit: June 06, 2009, 08:58:07 AM by Alixz »

Offline Michael HR

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Re: Fifth Daughter Claimant - Alexandra DeGraffe
« Reply #19 on: June 28, 2008, 07:40:12 AM »
The Tsar and Tsarina were very caring parents and would not have given away a child under any circumstances IMHO. The lady in Holland just seems ot have made it up and I recall her Sister also said that she was a liar. It's one if those stories that we can just throw out

The thought of the empress giving away a child born to her and the Tsar is no doubt made up. why on earth would she do this, people would have known and people would have asked where the child had gone.

Any thing AA said cannot be believed.

The Tsarina may have been many things but an uncaring mother was not one of them
If this child was unwonted, it is possibility that would not be the czar child?
Sorry about my bad English :-[
« Last Edit: June 06, 2009, 08:58:59 AM by Alixz »
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Offline StevenL

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Re: Fifth Daughter Claimant - Alexandra DeGraffe
« Reply #20 on: June 28, 2008, 08:31:14 AM »
The Tsar and Tsarina were very caring parents and would not have given away a child under nay circumstances IMHO. The lady in Holland just seems to have made it up and I recall her Sister also said that she was a liar. It's one if those stories that we can just throw out


...I heard the "5th daughter" looked just like Anna Anderson -- if you can picture AA in wooden shoes, and a starched "traditional" Dutch costume,
holding a basket of fresh-cut tulips with a windmill in the background.

: o p


Steven : - )
« Last Edit: June 06, 2009, 09:00:41 AM by Alixz »

Offline Annie

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Re: Fifth Daughter Claimant - Alexandra DeGraffe
« Reply #21 on: June 28, 2008, 09:15:02 AM »


The 'fifth daughter' story is too ridiculous to even comment on. Of course it's a fake. There are two 'fifth daughter' stories, one where she allegedly gave away the baby during her 'false' pregnancy of 1902-03, the other where they allegedly had another child in Ekaterinburg and it was spirited away. If people are so creative why not make up their own original stories instead of using the poor Romanovs?!
« Last Edit: June 06, 2009, 09:01:28 AM by Alixz »

Offline Robert_Hall

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Re: Fifth Daughter Claimant - Alexandra DeGraffe
« Reply #22 on: June 28, 2008, 01:42:36 PM »
I do not recall a story about the Empress having a baby  in Ekaterinburg. Maria, maybe, but they are both ridiculous stories.
Life may not be the party we expected, but while we are here, might as well dance..

Do you want the truth, or my side of the story ?- Hank Ketchum.

Offline Annie

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Re: Fifth Daughter Claimant - Alexandra DeGraffe
« Reply #23 on: June 28, 2008, 09:41:26 PM »
The Ekaterinburg baby story was posted here awhile back, I don't know which thread. It's so hard to find anything in these threads because they all end up the same anyway, always saying the same things about AA over and over.

Steven- LOL 'wooden shoe' wouldn't you

Offline Michael HR

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Re: Fifth Daughter Claimant - Alexandra DeGraffe
« Reply #24 on: June 29, 2008, 05:05:39 AM »
Did anyone ever take it seriously?
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Offline Zecharia

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Re: Fifth Daughter Claimant - Alexandra DeGraffe
« Reply #25 on: June 29, 2008, 10:02:28 AM »
Did anyone ever take it seriously?
I do not think so.  But now when they found rest of the Romanov family, maybe is time to search for more survivors. ;)
« Last Edit: June 06, 2009, 09:02:20 AM by Alixz »

Offline Robert_Hall

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Re: Fifth Daughter Claimant - Alexandra DeGraffe
« Reply #26 on: June 29, 2008, 10:18:28 AM »
I think, perhaps, some of the AA fanatics might have, especially after the Blair-Lovell book came out. But even though that work has been dis-credited, some might still hang on- conspiracy, you know!
Life may not be the party we expected, but while we are here, might as well dance..

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Offline Annie

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Re: Fifth Daughter Claimant - Alexandra DeGraffe
« Reply #27 on: June 29, 2008, 10:23:43 AM »
The Lovell book had a story about how AA met Degraffe and called her 'sister' or something like that. It only made them both look nuttier than they were!

Offline Halinka

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Re: Fifth Daughter Claimant - Alexandra DeGraffe
« Reply #28 on: June 30, 2008, 08:51:24 PM »
The Lovell book had a story about how AA met Degraffe and called her 'sister' or something like that. It only made them both look nuttier than they were!
It would been amusing to watch!

Offline Robert_Hall

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Re: Fifth Daughter Claimant - Alexandra DeGraffe
« Reply #29 on: June 30, 2008, 08:59:33 PM »
Or- very sad. For all 3 of them [author included]
Life may not be the party we expected, but while we are here, might as well dance..

Do you want the truth, or my side of the story ?- Hank Ketchum.