Author Topic: Fifth Daughter Claimant - Alexandra DeGraffe  (Read 65957 times)

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Offline Robert_Hall

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Re: Fifth Daughter Claimant - Alexandra DeGraffe
« Reply #60 on: June 20, 2009, 02:20:20 AM »
It is just another story for fantasists and conspiracy  enthusiasts.  Still, it is still part of the Romanov legacy as a footnote for what it is. Not be taken seriously, but to display how far some will go in stretching their imagination. Much like those that claim to be  descendants of  Louis XVII, the "Lost Dauphin".  As long as people who read this take  the story for what it is-  a fictional story- so be it. Just file it in the rubbish heap of the other fictional claimants and theories.
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Do you want the truth, or my side of the story ?- Hank Ketchum.

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Re: Fifth Daughter Claimant - Alexandra DeGraffe
« Reply #61 on: June 20, 2009, 08:07:28 AM »
What he said -

And I don't intend to lock this thread.  Not yet anyway.  Nothing that has been posted here shows that this thread should be locked.

Discussion encouraged, but the caveat is this - it is fiction!

Just another fraudulent claimant.

Offline Zecharia

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Re: Fifth Daughter Claimant - Alexandra DeGraffe
« Reply #62 on: June 20, 2009, 05:37:50 PM »
Hi,

I cannot see Nicholas and Alexandra giving up any children of theirs for whatever reason.  This is a ridiculous fantasy & derogatory gossip.  Hateful....
I am really no big fan of either Nicholas or Alexandra;  I find them interesting but not as much as other Romanovs.  But, Alexandra, for all her faults, was a devoted wife and mother and would never have abandoned a child of her own, let alone Nicky's.  And, Nicholas would certainly not have dumped an innocent child, especially his own.

Larry
It is possible that Nicholas did not know that Tsarina is pregnant ???
« Last Edit: June 20, 2009, 05:44:39 PM by Zecharia »

Alixz

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Re: Fifth Daughter Claimant - Alexandra DeGraffe
« Reply #63 on: June 20, 2009, 08:53:19 PM »
Since this pregnancy was supposed to be in between the birth of Anastasia and Alexei, I doubt that Nicholas wouldn't know about it.

There would be no reason for Alix to hide any pregnancy from her husband as they were both awaiting a boy.  I think they would both be very excited to think that she was pregnant again and that the long awaited heir might be on the way.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2009, 01:24:51 PM by Alixz »

Anastasia Spalko

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Re: Fifth Daughter Claimant - Alexandra DeGraffe
« Reply #64 on: July 07, 2009, 04:38:00 PM »
There is no way that the Tsar and Tsarina would give a child away and claim it was a false pregancy.  What a phony!

Alixz

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Re: Fifth Daughter Claimant - Alexandra DeGraffe
« Reply #65 on: July 08, 2009, 09:08:23 AM »
Anastasia was born in June 1901 and Alexei was born in August of 1904.

Since the other pregnancies were just about two years apart 1895 - 1897 - 1899 - 1901, I think that people who thought their might be a "fifth" daughter would put the date of her birth in between 1901 and 1904.

The supposed miscarriage during the coronation in 1896 would be very close to the birth of Olga in November of 1895.

The "false pregnancy" where an "ovule" dropped out was after Anastasia but before Alexei.  This is the "pregnancy" that the fifth daughter fiction is based on.  According to Anna Anderson this "false pregnancy" was not false but in 1903, Alexandra had yet another daughter who was taken from her and raised in the Netherlands.  This daughter was named Alexandra.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2009, 09:20:26 AM by Alixz »

Offline Teddy

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Re: Fifth Daughter Claimant - Alexandra DeGraffe
« Reply #66 on: July 15, 2009, 03:33:44 PM »
Larry  - LOL

Wouldn't that be terrific!  If Suzanne was Anna sister, then we could get DNA from that branch and find out who AA really was!

A few posts before, posters were asking to see photos of Suzanne.  The one I posted above is the only one I have, I think.  I bought JB Lovell's book for $1 at my local library's "white elephant" sale, just to have it.

I haven't even read it and I think I got it about 2 years ago.

I also have Kurth's book and the Quest for Anastasia by Klier and his wife Mingay, just because they are a part of the story and I felt they needed to be in my collection.

The James Blair book, was my first Romanov book I got. For me it started my fascination for Anastasia. Later on, my fascination for the entire Romanov family grew.

Anastasia Spalko

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Re: Fifth Daughter Claimant - Alexandra DeGraffe
« Reply #67 on: July 23, 2009, 09:30:17 PM »
J.B. Lovell is a huge fraud.  My teacher made me read his book on Anna Anderson, and I will never forgive her or finish that book.  It makes sense if he's lying about Alexandra.  Nothing about her story makes sense.

Offline Robert_Hall

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Re: Fifth Daughter Claimant - Alexandra DeGraffe
« Reply #68 on: July 24, 2009, 11:46:44 AM »
J B Lovell is dead  and cannot defend himself/ But as I understand it, before he died, he admitted that he made up those  bizarre stories to enhance his AA book-and sales. People who knew him far better than I had tried to dissuade him from  putting that stuff in. His book has a reputation now, but it is not one that I would want. In a way, it illustrates the fascination that some have for such odd conspiracy tales but on the other hand, it is very misleading in that younger, first time readers  receive a totally distorted and downright false view. That is the real pity. In my opinion, his work should be classified as fiction. It is not even a first-rate claimant story.
Life may not be the party we expected, but while we are here, might as well dance..

Do you want the truth, or my side of the story ?- Hank Ketchum.

Anastasia Spalko

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Re: Fifth Daughter Claimant - Alexandra DeGraffe
« Reply #69 on: July 24, 2009, 08:55:46 PM »
My point exactly.  If anyone else in my class had read that book, they'd think that Anna was Anastasia.  They probably wouldn't believe anyone if they were told Anna was a fraud.

Offline Carisbrooke

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Re: Fifth Daughter Claimant - Alexandra DeGraffe
« Reply #70 on: August 23, 2011, 07:06:45 AM »
   In Blair Lovell's story of a possible 5th daughter I don't see what he was doing wrong. Isn't all the below true ? anyone correct me if not.

1   Alexandra (Suzanna) De Graff did exist, she was well known in the local community & is buried in Doorn.

2   Apparently she did make a claim to be the Tsars 5th daughter to the Daily Telegaph in 1968.

3   As Blair Lovell's book states Miliukov did tape Anna Anderson & this is also confirmed in Greg & Pennys Resurrection of the Romanovs (page 242).

4   According to this tape, the 5th daughter claiment visited AA at Unterlengenhardt. A picture seems to confirm this as fact.

   As I see it all Blair Lovell did was to bring attention to the possibility of a 5th daughter, no matter how barmy that prospect may be. On this one issue as AA's official biographer, isn't he only guilty of doing his job ? Also you would think with material such as this, who needs to make anything up. The 5th daughter claim is ludirous yes, but my point is Blair Lovell did not fabricate it.


Offline Olga Bernice

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Re: Fifth Daughter Claimant - Alexandra DeGraffe
« Reply #71 on: August 23, 2011, 09:41:29 PM »
I do not recall a story about the Empress having a baby  in Ekaterinburg. Maria, maybe, but they are both ridiculous stories.

Robert, can you please tell me what you meant by suggesting Maria might have been pregnant? Is there some sort of source that says that? I'd love to know.

Thank you.
Olga Bernice
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Offline Robert_Hall

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Re: Fifth Daughter Claimant - Alexandra DeGraffe
« Reply #72 on: August 23, 2011, 09:50:35 PM »
To be honest, OB, I think I read the  basics of the story from FOTR,  debunked, of course. JBL gave all sorts of bizarre scenarios, which even he admitted were  false.
 So, to be honest, I do not have anything to back that speculation up,  other than that- possibilities, though not likely.
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Do you want the truth, or my side of the story ?- Hank Ketchum.

Offline Olga Bernice

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Re: Fifth Daughter Claimant - Alexandra DeGraffe
« Reply #73 on: August 23, 2011, 09:53:58 PM »
Thanks for your really quick response, Robert. I wasn't trying to sound mean or anything ( :-[) but I just wanted to know if there was any definite proof (birth certificate, etc) of Maria having a baby while at Ekaterinburg. *Wipes sweat from brow* Good.

Thanks again,
Olga Bernice
Mashka . . . Olya . . . Tatya . . . Nastya

Many thanks to Laura Mabee for the banner!!

"We played on the swing, that was when I roared with laughter, the fall was so wonderful! Indeed!"
ANR, May 7, 1918

Offline Kalafrana

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Re: Fifth Daughter Claimant - Alexandra DeGraffe
« Reply #74 on: August 24, 2011, 04:55:20 AM »
Quite apart from any other consideration, the time factor would make it unlikely that Maria could have had a child while at Ekaterinburg. The Imperial Family moved from Tsarskoye Selo to Tobolsk in August 1917, and Nicholas, Alexandra and Maria moved on to Ekaterinburg in April 1918. The entire family were then murdered on the night of 16-17 July. On that basis, and assuming a normal-length pregnancy, Maria would have had to become attached to someone at Tobolsk and got pregnant some time between August and October 1917. The putative child would then have had to be born between the second half of April and the middle of July 1918 and 'arrangements' made.

Not absolutely impossible, timewise, but unlikely, given that Maria was certainly flirtatious, but, in my view, probably knew when to stop.

If this unlikely tale were true, it is yet more unlikely that the birth would have been registered - most likely the child would have been removed by the Bolsheviks and dumped, alive or dead.

Ann