German Royals and Nazism/Royals and the Reich

She was the granddaughter of (ex)king Gustav IV Adolf of Sweden and the last of the house of Wasa. The memory of her and her great donations still lives in the name of one of the bridges across the Elbe, Carolabrücke.

Excuse me, but Gustaf IV Adolf was not a Vasa (Wasa), nor was his son, prince Gustaf, consequently. The last Swedish Vasa was queen Christina, who died 1689. The Polish branch of the Vasa dynasty became extinct in 1672, when king Jan Kazimierz died. He was the last Vasa male.

Gustaf IV Adolf was a Holstein-Gottorp (which, I suppose, means he was an Oldenburg), and so was his son. Prince Gustaf was given the title prince of Vasa (Wasa) by the Austrian emperor Franz as the Swedish king Carl XIV Johan, the first king of the Bernadotte dynasty, was furious that Gustaf called himself prince of Sweden (which he had all rights to do). Prince Gustaf of Vasa (Wasa) was a descendant of the old Vasa dynasty through the maternal line, but that didn't make him a Vasa. All the kings of the Bernadotte dynasty from Karl XV and on have also been descendants of the old Vasa dynasty. But they are not Vasas...

Sorry to have offended you, Rebecca, but I forgot the maternal line, which in some monarchies can be of great importance. Take for instance the current Prince of Wales. I suppose he´s the rightful heir of his mother/mater. Is he a Hanover, a Windsor, a Windsor-Mountbatten/Battenberg or Windsor-Denmark-Greece or even something else? The father of Gustav IV Adolf, Gustav III, regarded himself as a Vasa, because he was related to Queen Christina´s cousin and heir Karl X Gustav. Furthermore I think it was the congress of Vienna, after the Napoleonic wars, who granted Gustav-who-never became- the-fifth-of-Sweden the title Prince of Wasa. He was also commander in chief of the Wasa-regiment in Austria and lived in the Wasagasse in Vienna. In Dresden there is still a Wasaplatz.Karl XV had not much to do with the Wasas but his nephew Gustav-who-became-the-fifth-of-Sweden married a princess of Baden who maternally was related to Gustav IV Adolf. Since his time the bodily remains of Gustav-who-never became- the-fifth-of-Sweden rest in the royal crypt of the Riddarholmskyrkan together with other more or less Wasa-related bodily remains. While we still are talking about details it´s a convention of the Swedish parliament that all Gustafs when dead are spelled Gustav. So the present Swedish king when dead, God bless his soul, will be spelled Karl XVI Gustav. If my message is in any way wrong please bear in mind, as I have stated on another thread of this discussion board, that I am no royal genealogist, only royal.

Wettin, of course you didn't offend me in any way. I'm sorry if something in my post made you think that. It was not intentional.

Yes, the maternal line is important. I think that the reason why Gustaf III liked to regard himself as a Vasa was that he felt that this would somewhat make his position stronger (which wasn't needed, really), and of course, the thought of being a Vasa was at that time important and perhaps had an aura of glory to it.

It's very possible that it was the Vienna congress as you say, and not the emperor Franz personally, who granted prince Gustaf the title prince of Vasa. I read somewhere (but as is often the case with me, I cannot remember where) that it was the emperor, but perhaps my memory fails me.

Karl XV and his brother Oscar II were descendants of the Vasa dynasty in the maternal line, through their mother queen Joséphine and her mother princess Augusta Amalie of Bavaria (who married Napoleon's stepson Eugéne).

I'm not a royal genealogist either, I'm just very interested in royal genealogy.

["Some simply went along with the movement because it had captured the popular will. Some held back altogether. A few were completely seduced by the promise of a revival in German pride and German fortunes, after the long misery of the post-war years."]

"Some simply went along with the movement because it had captured the popular will.  Some held back altogether.  A few were completely seduced by the promise of a revival in German pride and German fortunes, after the long misery of the post-war years."
-Charlotte Zeepvat, Queen Victoria's Family

 A thread to discuss the royals who supported, opposed, or remained neutral to Hitler's regime.  Great evil occured during that time, but also great heroism.  Princess Alice of Battenberg hid a family whilst living next door to Nazi quarters. On the other hand, Duke Karl Eduard of Sachsen Coburg und Gotha, grandson of Q. Victoria by her son Leopold, became enthralled with the Party, (much to my disappointment, his father being one of my favorite royals).

I believe this subject ahs already been discussed either in general or in particular... search the page and forum or look through this section of German royalty; you may find things regarding the last kaiser's sons.

New book by Jonathon Petropoulos. "The Princes von Hessen in Nazi Germany".  Although centered manily on the Hesse-Kassel branch, the Darmstads are covered as well as is just about all other German royalty and aristocracy that became involved  with the Nazi party or avoided it]. In fact, almost all the royal families of the time are in this book ! Not a condemnation nor an apologia, I find it an objective history.   Trying to find the reasons these people became involved  with such a movement cannot be an easy task from such a viewpoint.
An appendix lists ALL members of the high nobility [and royalty] that were party members. Revealing reading in itself.
Like most books on this subject, it may be a distrubing read.
Robert

I'm glad to hear from someone who's read it. I think Marlene had recommended it based on advance readings but I can't remember. It seemed like it would be an interesting read. I hadn't read about Mossy being a party member.  :-/ Still surprises me that so many of Vicky & Fritz's descendants embraced it--they must've been rolling over in their graves. Rather ironic that the one considered the 'worst',  William, avoided the Nazis while Mossy felt under the sway.

It seemed like it would be an interesting read. I hadn't read about Mossy being a party member.  :-/

Mossy was a party member?! Jesus!! Does anybody know more about this?

The ex-Kaiser did not exactly "avoid" the Nazis after all. He entertained  Goering several times at Doorn. He also accepted  large amounts of money from them. In a rather prescient  move, he sold large estates in Eastern Prussia to Goering, which of course were later lost to Poland. Of course, the Hohenzollerns kept the cash ! Most his sons joined the party. And Hermine was a big supporter. [I corrected that !]
"Mossys" party # was 4814690 if I am correct on the identification. [wife of Friedrich Karl] I always forget those nicknames.

[why]

"Mossys" party # was 4814690 if I am correct on the identification. [wife of Friedrich Karl] I always forget those nicknames.

That´s quite a high number- did she join the party late? And why?

She and her husband joined in May, 1938. This was some time after their sons had joined.

with the risk of having stones thrown at me, i don't think everyone who joined the party believed in it. like every dictatorial regime, where a party ruled it all, it was either joining it or being against it. the people who didn't were highly suspect, especially if they were in high positions (let's say... royals?), so maybe some just joined for the front...

Resently I read an article about Georg-Ludwig von Erbach-Schönberg and his cousin Josia von Waldeck-Pyrmont.
Imagine the Nazityp that gives you chills in a movie, there you have them.

Georg-Ludwig was the grandson of Marie von Erbach-Schönberg. His father Alexander was married to Elisabeth von Waldeck-Pyrmont, the sister of the dutch queen Emma and of Helena, Leopold, Duke of Albanys wife . (The article states that Alexander and Elisabeth had great sympathy for the Nationalsozialismus. But nothing more on them is said.)

In November 1938 (Reichsprogromnacht), Goeorg-Ludwig  played a big role around Bensheim-Area in terrorising members of the jewish community.
His big role-model cousin Josias was a buddy of Reichsführer SS Heinrich Himmler, he was the  Stabsführer bei Reichsführer-SS. In the end of the war he was in Buchenwald KZ following his "orders". After being captured by the US-Army he asserted ,that he's never been a witness to any form of genocide.

There is no stone-throwing  Iyala. Part of what you said may have been true. But, the facts presented indicate that more did NOT join the party than did. This indicates that cohersion was not a factor necessarily. Enticement , however was.  Promises of restoration of the monarchy and return of  fortunes lost under the Weimar Republic for a couple. Also, positions of influence and social standing under the new regime. All these of course were betrayed.
The important thing to remember here is that for the most part, these men & women of the German upper clsses  were not particpating so much in the Nazi agenda but enjoying a renewal of their former importance. The Hessen brothers were in the SA & the SS, hardly a forcible recruitment, but they apparently took no part in the atrocities committed by those organisations. These aristocrats were all over the upper echelons of the Nazi regime, adding cachet and a certain legitimacy.
As it happened, when Hitler achieved what he wanted, they were no longer needed.
This is what I feel the objectivity of the book achieves. an understanding of the reasons. A most difficult thing to achive when dealing with the Third Reich I think.

There were definitely those who went along for a variety of reasons (often monetary), those who felt pressured and joined out of fear, those who strongly resisted (and often paid the price) and those who were true believers, to the end and past.

I don't have a lot of admiration for the first, sympathy for the 2nd, nothing but admiration and respect for the 3rd and utter contempt for the last.