Author Topic: Louis XVII - Did he die in the Tower?  (Read 100934 times)

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Offline koloagirl

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Louis XVII - Did he die in the Tower?
« on: August 14, 2005, 08:44:09 PM »
 :(
Poor little Louis XVII - the ill-fated son of Marie Antoinette and Louis XVI - was forcibly taken from his mother and sister after his father's execution and given to one of the jailers where he was brainwashed into saying at his mother's trial that she was incestuously involved with him!  I simply cannot imagine her anguish at seeing him and hearing the obscenities he was uttering.  

Then after her execution - he passes into the pages of history -- most people believing he died of abuse and neglect in the Tower - but many people came forward later claiming to be this same boy.
Echoes of GD Anastasia!   :-/

What is everyone's opinion on this?  How do you think he died?  

Janet R.
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Offline Prince_Lieven

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Re: Louis XVII - Did he die in the Tower?
« Reply #1 on: August 15, 2005, 05:00:13 AM »
Well, I read a book by Debra Cadbury called 'the Lost King of France' which deals with this issue - it is a very sad story. Taking things like DNA into accout, I beleive she confirms that Louis XVII did indeed die the in the Temple Prison. His poor sister was tormented for the rest of her life by men claiming to be him, but would never meet her for fear she would identify them.
"How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?"
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Offline Helene

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Re: Louis XVII - Did he die in the Tower?
« Reply #2 on: August 15, 2005, 06:00:43 AM »
  You're right, He was the second son of Louis XVI and Marie-Antoinette, He receives the title of duke of Normandy, and becomes hear with the dead of his elder brother, Louis-Joseph-Xavier deceased on June 4, 1789.

  Locked up with his family in the Tuileries, then in the Temple, after August 10, 1792, He is separated from his father on 2  December, when the lawsuit of the king opens, then of his mother on July 3, 1793. He is then entrusted to the guard of  Simon  a shoe-maker. This man tried  to corrupt the child by teaching him a  language disrespectful.

  January 5, 1794, Simon gives up the post of "tutor" and the small heir, entrusted to the guard of renewed police chiefs every evening, is subjected to reinforced "safety measures".

   His head was shaved, and nobody does not authorize him to see his sister, Mrs Royale, who lives solitary on the floor above. Herself speaks with a certain detachment about her small neighbor in the memories which she will write later.

 The child locked up in the Temple dies abruptly in 1795. :-/

  Many "false-heir" will haunt France and the world during decades which follow, of which most famous are certainly Naundorff.




Sorry for the spelling mistakes, I am not very good in English  :P
« Last Edit: November 01, 2010, 02:39:51 PM by Svetabel »

Offline Prince_Lieven

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Re: Louis XVII - Did he die in the Tower?
« Reply #3 on: August 15, 2005, 06:32:26 AM »
Quote

Sorry for the spelling mistakes, I am not very good in English  :P


That's OK - are you French? You speak wonderful English! Have you also read the Lost King of France?
"How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?"
-Sherlock Holmes

"Men forget, but never forgive; women forgive, but never forget."

Offline Helene

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Re: Louis XVII - Did he die in the Tower?
« Reply #4 on: August 15, 2005, 06:38:57 AM »
Yes I am french, so I am very happy there is a section for "French Royals"  :D

And no, I don't read this book, but if you advise it to me, why not  :)


Offline Prince_Lieven

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Re: Louis XVII - Did he die in the Tower?
« Reply #5 on: August 15, 2005, 06:52:35 AM »
Yes, it is a wonderful book - The Lost King of France by Deborah Cadbury (I only just noticed that I have been spelling her name wrong). I defy anyone to read it and not find it upsetting!!!!
"How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?"
-Sherlock Holmes

"Men forget, but never forgive; women forgive, but never forget."

Offline umigon

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Re: Louis XVII - Did he die in the Tower?
« Reply #6 on: August 15, 2005, 07:44:15 AM »

Yes, as you have already said, Louis XVII died in the Temple prison. Probably of tuberculosis...

It was confirmed by DNA tests done to the heart of the little boy that was conserved against some hair of young Marie Antoinette conserved in Vienna thanks to her mother, Empress Maria Theresia!
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Offline Prince_Lieven

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Re: Louis XVII - Did he die in the Tower?
« Reply #7 on: August 15, 2005, 07:47:08 AM »
Yes, Maria Theresa was a magnificent woman, but that's another story for another thread!
"How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?"
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"Men forget, but never forgive; women forgive, but never forget."

Offline Grand Duke

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Offline koloagirl

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Re: Louis XVII - Did he die in the Tower?
« Reply #9 on: August 15, 2005, 03:37:50 PM »
 :) :)

Thanks Grand Duke for those links -- I muddled my way through the French ones with my schoolgirl French!  :-/

How fascinating that the pretender Naundorf as he was pursuing his claim to be Louis XVII had so many of the same experiences as Anna Anderson - and apparently was able to convince many of the royal suite up to his death that he was indeed the little heir.  And apparently to this day his descendants are still pushing his claim!  ::)

And again mitochondrial DNA comes into play and disproves his claim these many years later!  Amazing!

Wonderful links!  And I'll have to read the book also!
Merci beau coup!   ;D

Janet R.
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Offline Lisa

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Re: Louis XVII - Did he die in the Tower?
« Reply #10 on: August 16, 2005, 08:55:05 AM »
This is indeed Louis XVII, after Kucharski Alexandre (1741-1819), Museum of Versailles:



another by Elisabeth Vigée-Lebrun

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Lisa »

Offline Lisa

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Re: Louis XVII - Did he die in the Tower?
« Reply #11 on: August 16, 2005, 09:01:12 AM »
Here is the first Dauphin, Charles-Louis (1781-1789)
with mother, brother and sisiter by Vigée-Lebrun:


close-up:


by the same, with his sister, Madame Royale (next duchesse d'Angoulème)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Lisa »

Offline Prince_Lieven

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Re: Louis XVII - Did he die in the Tower?
« Reply #12 on: August 16, 2005, 09:01:24 AM »
Here is a pic of Louis XVII's brother Louis-Joseph (I always thought he was Louis Joseph Charles Xavier):



He died aged 8.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Prince_Lieven »
"How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?"
-Sherlock Holmes

"Men forget, but never forgive; women forgive, but never forget."

Offline Lisa

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Re: Louis XVII - Did he die in the Tower?
« Reply #13 on: August 16, 2005, 09:15:41 AM »
Louis-François-Joseph-Xavier, 1rst Dauphin de France,  (1781-1789)



pastel, museum of Versailles

Offline Helene

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Re: Louis XVII - Did he die in the Tower?
« Reply #14 on: August 16, 2005, 09:50:11 AM »
In this three website, it is said that he is his brother  so I don't know what to think  ??? :

http://www.louis-xvii.com/autre17.htm

http://www.ladyreading.net/marieantoinette/det4-en.html

http://www.madamedepompadour.com/_m_antonietta_fersen/ita/_manton/man_img/man_fam.htm

Anyway, beautiful pic Lisa like always  ;), in your second pic Louis have an "émigrette", it is the  ancestor of the yoyo  :)


« Last Edit: November 01, 2010, 02:41:22 PM by Svetabel »