Author Topic: Louis XVII - Did he die in the Tower?  (Read 104984 times)

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Offline elena_maria_vidal

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Re: Louis XVII - Did he die in the Tower?
« Reply #30 on: November 09, 2005, 09:23:51 AM »
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DNA studies done on Naundorff's remains proved that he was not Louis XVII.

Arturo Beéche


Yes, that is very true. I personally did not believe in him, anyway.

Offline elena_maria_vidal

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Re: Louis XVII - Did he die in the Tower?
« Reply #31 on: November 10, 2005, 09:49:42 AM »
There is an anecdote - I don't know whether to post it here or under the Duchesse d'Angouleme's thread, for it illustrates a great deal about her approach to the situation of her lost brother. I read this in one of Joseph Turquan's books (or else in  Meade Minnergerode.) One spring day in 1817, Marie-Therese, Duchesse of Angouleme was walking in the park of Versailles with her brother-in-law and cousin, the Duc de Berry. (They did not live at Versailles after the Restoration- too expensive, but they wanted to restore the chapel and maintain the graounds.) Suddenly, a young man approached them,  in shabby garb. He went to the princess, holding out his hand, saying, "Sister!"

Marie-Therese's reaction was startling to her brother-in-law and the entourage. She shouted at the young stranger: "Go AWAY! Go AWAY! It is YOU who destroyed my family!" The young man ran off into the park of Versailles and disappeared, leaving his "sister" in near hysteria. The story indicates that Marie-Therese was not at peace about Louis XVII, and still probably troubled in her heart about things that happened in the Temple prison.

Offline stacey

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Re: Louis XVII - Did he die in the Tower?
« Reply #32 on: November 29, 2005, 10:26:48 AM »
Seems to me that the DNA tests are pretty conclusive--that the poor child did indeed die, probably from abuse and neglect. Unbelievable the cruelty that "revolutionaries" can show to innocent children. I mean, teaching him to call his own mother vile names and even accuse her of incest--that is beyond cruel, it's obscene--words fail me for once!! I cannot imagine what poor Marie Antionette felt, hearing such things and knowing that her son had been subjected to such hateful brainwashing. I'm sure tho that she felt much sorrier for her poor little boy than she did for herself. And Helene, thank you so much for telling us about the "emigrette"--when I first looked at the painting my jaw dropped and I thought, "If I didn't know better, I'd swear he was holding a yoyo!" You do indeed learn something new every day---merci beaucoup, Helene!! ;D
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Offline ilyala

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Re: Louis XVII - Did he die in the Tower?
« Reply #33 on: November 30, 2005, 12:43:43 AM »
lots of ugly things happened during the french revolution. while i believe that the french were right to want a change i think they went about it the worst way possible and brought on more harm than good. and in the end it all just led to the installation of napoleon who was an emperror and who pretty much did what a king would do in his place... therefor, not much of a change after all... so many people dying for nothing...  :(
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Offline etonexile

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Re: Louis XVII - Did he die in the Tower?
« Reply #34 on: November 30, 2005, 05:36:48 AM »
More often than not the consequence of revolutions is greater misery...Bad is often followed by worse...


Offline frohsdorf

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Re: Louis XVII - Did he die in the Tower?
« Reply #35 on: January 08, 2006, 12:05:09 PM »
Louis XVII died in the Temple.  All existing letters, dcumentation (and, now, scientific testing) point to that.   Scientific testing proved Naundorff was an imposter.  Eleazar Williams in Wisconsin has been proved an imposter.  There is not a thread of evidence pointing to the survival of Louis XVII .   At the time of her death in 1851, Marie Therese Charlotte, duchesse d'angouleme, named her nephew, the Comte de Chambord, her universal heir.  Her brother was never mentioned in her July, 1851, testament.  So, finally, after many years of doubt, she must have felt certain that her brother had died in 1795.

Offline elena_maria_vidal

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Re: Louis XVII - Did he die in the Tower?
« Reply #36 on: January 08, 2006, 01:22:29 PM »
How was Eleazar (Lazare) Williams proved to be an imposter? Really, I am curious. He looked an awful lot like the Comte de Provence  (from the portraits, which could have heightened the likeness) and was brought to New York by the ex-valet of the future Louis Xviii. I wondered if he was someone's natural child, always doubting he was LouisXVII. Did they do a DNA test?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by elena_maria_vidal »

Offline palimpsest

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Re: Louis XVII - Did he die in the Tower?
« Reply #37 on: January 08, 2006, 03:51:41 PM »


A carved jar containing what is believed to be the heart of Louis XVII is placed next to a crown in France's royal crypt during a mass celebrated in the Saint-Denis Basilica, outside Paris, Tuesday, June 8, 2004. The heart is to be buried near the graves of Marie-Antoinette and Louis XVI, who would be the parents of the young boy. (AP Photo/Pool)
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Offline palimpsest

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Re: Louis XVII - Did he die in the Tower?
« Reply #38 on: January 08, 2006, 03:54:07 PM »


A Mass is celebrated in memory of Louis XVII in the Saint-Denis Basilica, outside Paris, Tuesday, June 8, 2004. The heart of a 10-year-old boy identified as Louis XVII was placed in France's royal crypt after genetic testing persuaded many historians that it was almost certainly the real thing. The heart is to be buried near the graves of Marie-Antoinette and Louis XVI, who would be the parents of the young boy. (AP Photo/Pool) *
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Offline palimpsest

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Re: Louis XVII - Did he die in the Tower?
« Reply #39 on: January 08, 2006, 03:55:50 PM »


Louis-Alphonse de Bourbon, Duke of Anjou, left, who is considered to be the head of the French Royal House, Prince Charles-Emmanuel de Bourbon Parme, second left, carrying his daughter Elizabeth, his son Amaury , background, his daughter Charlotte, foreground, his wife Baroness Constance de Ravinel, and their child Zita, arrive at the Saint-Denis basilica, north of Paris, Tuesday, June 8, 2004, before the solemn deposition of the heart of Louis XVII in the Bourbon chapel in the Basilica. The heart of the 10-year-old heir to France's throne who died in the Paris fortified Temple prison on June 8, 1795, and that was cut from Louis XVII's body following a tradition of keeping royal hearts separate from their bodies, will be placed during a ceremony in France's royal crypt of the Basilica, now that genetic tests have satisfied historians and the government that the tiny petrified heart passed down through the centuries is almost certainly the real thing. (AP Photo/Remy de la Mauviniere)
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Offline palimpsest

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Re: Louis XVII - Did he die in the Tower?
« Reply #40 on: January 08, 2006, 04:51:39 PM »


Louis-Alphonse de Bourbon, Duke of Anjou, foreground right, who is considered to be the the head of the French Royal House, attends with his grandmother Emanuela Dampierre, center, Duchess of Segovia, a requiem mass at the Saint-Denis Basilica, north of Paris, Monday, June 7, 2004. What is believed to be the heart of Louis XVII, the 10-year-old heir to France's throne who died in the Paris fortified Temple prison on June 8, 1795, and that was cut from Louis XVII's body following a tradition of keeping royal hearts separate from their bodies, will be placed during a ceremony on June 8 in France's royal crypt of the Basilica, now that genetic tests have satisfied historians and the government that the tiny petrified heart passed down through the centuries is almost certainly the real thing. Others are unidentified. (AP Photo/Remy de la Mauviniere)
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Offline elena_maria_vidal

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Re: Louis XVII - Did he die in the Tower?
« Reply #41 on: January 08, 2006, 05:31:20 PM »
Excellent photos, thank you! Marie-Therese, Madame Royale, would never receive the heart in the reliquary when it was offered to her by the ex- revolutionary doctor who performed the autopsy in the Temple prison, since she had not been permitted to see the body, even for the purpose of offering prayers.

Offline palimpsest

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Re: Louis XVII - Did he die in the Tower?
« Reply #42 on: January 08, 2006, 05:46:23 PM »
with pleasure! :)
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Offline ilyala

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Re: Louis XVII - Did he die in the Tower?
« Reply #43 on: January 09, 2006, 04:41:25 AM »
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Louis XVII died in the Temple.  All existing letters, dcumentation (and, now, scientific testing) point to that.   Scientific testing proved Naundorff was an imposter.  Eleazar Williams in Wisconsin has been proved an imposter.  There is not a thread of evidence pointing to the survival of Louis XVII .   At the time of her death in 1851, Marie Therese Charlotte, duchesse d'angouleme, named her nephew, the Comte de Chambord, her universal heir.  Her brother was never mentioned in her July, 1851, testament.  So, finally, after many years of doubt, she must have felt certain that her brother had died in 1795.



again, i am not suggesting that louis xvii didn't die in the tower, because i'm almost certain that he did. but just because he wasn't any of those two imposters doesn't mean he wasn't alive. also, his sister might have not known he was alive or if she knew she might not have wanted to let the world know in her will. as i said before, had i been a 10 year old boy escaped from prison and horrors, the last thing i wanted was to let anyone know i'm still alive so they can come after me. i'd just hide and shut up. this is one of the reasons i don't believe the romanov claimants, the louis xvii and basically any simmilar claims: not because i think it's impossible to have survived, but because if anyone did survive, i doubt they would want anyone to know...
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Offline umigon

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Re: Louis XVII - Did he die in the Tower?
« Reply #44 on: January 09, 2006, 04:53:30 AM »
Louis XVII did indeed die in 1795. At least the heart is his. It was DNA tested with Marie Antoinette's hair that was kept in Vienna. No more mistery, Louis XVII died in prison.
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