Queen Marie Antoinette

'Sharing tears'? Forgive me if I'm ignorant, but what does that mean? Just crying together?

No...I don't think so. They were guilty in seperating themselves from the people for such a long time, which Provence and Orleans (especially) were close to the population and use this to spread anti-royal propagranda. The Queen who was too busy pratcing a play did not know her popularity is on an all time low. "Madame deficit", "The Austrian Woman" and "the Lesbian Queen"...all of these libels did their work. She was deemed guilty even before the trial...

All terrible libels spread by Orleans and Provence in their struggle for the crown. Louis and Antoinette were as close to the people (because of their charitable works and duties as monarchs) as Orleans ( only because he lived in Paris at the Palais Royale.) The palace of Versailles was open to the public. Men had to wear a sword but those could be rented at the gate. The Royal family often dined in public. I really do not understand how Provence could have been closer to the people than Louis, who often mingled with the peasants and talked to the workingmen.
The lesbian rumor started along with the rumor of Louis' impotence. Antoinette was not known to be having affairs with any men, so they (some people) assumed she was having affairs with her ladies. It was done deliberately to destroy her image in the eyes of the French.

It was...although Marie Antoinette was quite close with her friends. Once her brother-in-law, Comte de Artois came surprisedly into a room and saw the Queen and one of her ladies sharing tears. He excused himself at once. But the rumour had started. Similiar rumour also claimed the MA's sister Maria Carolina was also a lesbian...

Since when is weeping on a friend's shoulder indicative of lesbianism? Antoinette was loving and sentimental, something which many jaded courtiers did not understand and so twisted it.

I NEVER heard  rumors about Maria Carolina being a lesbian. A freemason, yes.  However, she was extremely busy with her 11 children, you know.

Yes...Maria Carolina was accused of having an affair with Lady Hamiliton in some accounts. I think they were just bosom friends. Although the affection went beyond people's conception of "friendship" in those days, where a glance, a smile a closing touching of bodies are reported as gossip. I also feel people used these evil rumours as propaganda for their agenda.

No...MA was "not" close to the people. Remember when she had to wait on her sister-in-law who was giving birth. She was jeered by the fish wives there for her unfertility due to her decedent lifestyle. A claer indication of the people's dissapooval of her conduct. Yet she did not reform herself until much later.

Yes...Maria Carolina was accused of having an affair with Lady Hamiliton in some accounts. I think they were just bosom friends. Although the affection went beyond people's conception of "friendship" in those days, where a glance, a smile a closing touching of bodies are reported as gossip. I also feel people used these evil rumours as propaganda for their agenda.

No...MA was "not" close to the people. Remember when she had to wait on her sister-in-law who was giving birth. She was jeered by the fish wives there for her unfertility due to her decedent lifestyle. A claer indication of the people's dissapooval of her conduct. Yet she did not reform herself until much later.

Yes, Eric, I agree that people used evil rumors as propaganda.  That someone would concoct such a rumor about Maria-Carolina and Lady Hamilton is so far-fetched, especially when Emma Hamilton was totally obsessed with Lord Nelson at the time.

Well, we will have to agree to disagree about how close to the people Marie-Antoinette was or wasn't. Yes, I recall when the fishwives mocked her at the birth of the Duc d'Angouleme. It shows that the common people were allowed to roam the palace and say whatever they wanted to the Queen with impunity.

With regard to extravagance, I'm sure I read somewhere that compared to Mesdames Tantes, Marie Antoinette's expenditure was quite tame!

With regard to extravagance, I'm sure I read somewhere that compared to Mesdames Tantes, Marie Antoinette's expenditure was quite tame!

Yes, and in comparison to the Louis' brothers, Provence and Artois, her expenditures were also tame. And Madame Pompadour spent more money on one year than than Maroe-Antoinette did in her entire life. So did Napoleon's Josephine....

Louis and MA were never on good terms with the Provences, were they?

No, but they tried to make the best of it. Madame, as the Comtesse de Provence (Marie-Josephine of Sardinia) was called, had originally been intended to be the wife of Louis XVI when he was Dauphin. She had always been told that she would be the Queen of France someday. Because of the intrigues of La Pompadour, she was replaced by Antoinette, and so married the younger brother Provence. She was terribly jealous of Marie-Antoinette, especially when the latter had children (poor Marie-Josephine suffered many miscarriages, no live offspring, very sad). Marie-Josephine may herself have been a lesbian, and yet she is one of the people who probably spread so many rumors about her sister-in-law.

Provence, of course, hated that Louis became King when he thought himself to be better qualified. Both couples supped together every evening, along with the Artois family, because it saved money to eat en famille.

I think MA is just unfortunate when the system was at such a low point. Couple with that, she was not one that can handle a situation (like her famous mother and sister Maria Carolina). Had she been wife of a strong man in peace times, her life would have been much happier.

Any new pic?

Not a very beautiful woman, IMO . . .

It's a bit hard to tell, since some paintings depict her as a very pretty woman and others make her look really ugly.

I know this is an old thread, but it's very interesting.  I've always really like the Marie Antoinette story, although I've never really gotten to get my hands on any books.

I think Marie Antoinette and Mary , Queen of Scots will continue to be all time favourite tragic heroines...

I think Marie Antoinette and Mary , Queen of Scots will continue to be all time favourite tragic heroines...

We also!!!

Thank you for these magnificent pictures of the beautiful queen.  I love the Lady in Red!! I am so upset that Kirsten Dunst is going to play Marie-Antoinette in the new Sophia Coppola movie. Kirsten is pretty but does not have the ethereal quality that Marie-Antoinette had, as seen in these portraits and testified by contemporaries, who spoke of her "heavenly eyes." (Kate Winslet would have been a better choice, IMO.)

You're kidding me!Getting a tad off topic here,but although Kirsten is a wonderful actress,I do NOT think that she is fit to play Marie Antoinette.I find this a tad mad.
D'oh!Sorry,I'm getting my names mixed up here. \
Hmm just watched the trailer.When I saw the first pic of Kirsten I didn't think she could pull it off but now that I saw the trailer she actually looks promising.