Author Topic: Queen Marie Antoinette  (Read 301910 times)

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Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Queen Marie Antoinette
« Reply #390 on: February 25, 2007, 07:45:10 PM »
I don't think they will disturb his bones again... :(

Offline James1941

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Re: Queen Marie Antoinette
« Reply #391 on: February 26, 2007, 10:37:53 AM »
The testing of DNA from the heart of the young king was in the news quite a bit last year. Anyone know why they only tested for maternal DNA from hairs of Marie Antoinette? Were there no DNA samples available from Louis XVI that could be tested for paternal DNA? I tried to follow the story but I admit I didn't follow it as closely as all that. Anyone have some good insights on this testing and controversy?

Offline lori_c

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Re: Queen Marie Antoinette
« Reply #392 on: February 26, 2007, 10:58:07 AM »
i have an insight but no documentation (try not to be too harsh James) in front of me to quote, I will post it later.  However, when the Bourbons dug up the mass grave to find the imperial couple, there wasn't much.  They took a couple of bones BELIEVED to be Louis XVI and some "grayish matter w/a woman's corset" BELIEVED to be MA.  So they had to rely on Mitochondrial DNA from the only proven source they had which was the hair in Austria.

I asked the same question about paternal DNA as well.  Also, I believe since there was only bone left w/no head where the pulp of the teeth in the skull are rich in DNA. the only DNA that could be relied upon is Mitochondrial (which passes from mother to daughter forever unchanged). :)

Offline James1941

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Re: Queen Marie Antoinette
« Reply #393 on: February 26, 2007, 12:30:32 PM »
Thanks. I would like to see the material that you have on this subject. So I will indeed await your posting of the documentation. It should be interesting, so I appreciate your response.

Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Queen Marie Antoinette
« Reply #394 on: February 26, 2007, 07:02:12 PM »
I don't think the French wanted to go that avenue. I do not think the French Royal Family would have co-operated with such a DNA test (to dertemine if Louis Charles was Louis XVI's son).  :(

Offline lori_c

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Re: Queen Marie Antoinette
« Reply #395 on: February 27, 2007, 08:58:59 AM »
Well, the heart had changed hands so many times.  They were willing to do nuclear DNA testing.  They just couldn't be sure the bones from the grave are absolutely proven to be the King's. (or the Queen's for that matter) After all, it was a mass grave. Furthermore, nuclear DNA is harder to obtain from bones, especially old bones.  Mitochondrial DNA was the best route to prove that he was at least a child of the Queen.

But I STILL would love it if they could positively identify the King and Queen at St. Denis. How macambre, I know but curiosity...... :-\

Offline James1941

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Re: Queen Marie Antoinette
« Reply #396 on: February 27, 2007, 11:42:01 AM »
I am probably going to show my complete ignorance about DNA now, but...It is my understanding that the DNA of the prince came from shavings taken from his petrified heart and this was compared to DNA taken from hair samples of Marie Antoinette. Are there no hair samples of Louis XVI available? Or can paternal DNA not be obtained that way?
I think Eric_Lowe is probably correct in that the authorities didn't want to open up this can of worms. It was supposed to be a time of healing old wounds and making amends for the treatment of the boy, so just prove he was the little prince and leave it at that.
Still, it would be nice to have this mystery cleared up, or at least as much as can be cleared up.

Offline lori_c

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Re: Queen Marie Antoinette
« Reply #397 on: February 27, 2007, 12:50:25 PM »
I am no scientist, nor do I profess to be.  But DNA from hair has to come from the follicle close to the head. Like some that fell out, pulled out, not just cut.  And according to most of what I have read, the heads of the couple weren't recoverd and everything related to them were destroyed by mobs of revolutionaries.
But I am open to correction, I have no scientific degree.

I do know that mitochondrial DNA remains unchanged and is easier to obtain from older relics. 

The authorities would have gone to the graves first if they were sure the bones were accurate.  They are BELIEVED to be the real deal.  But you are correct in saying that what's the point when they had enough information with the Austiran hair to establish maternity w/Marie Antioinette. I totally agree w/both you and Eric. Enough is enough.

Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Queen Marie Antoinette
« Reply #398 on: February 27, 2007, 08:07:55 PM »
Thanks ! Amen to that.  ;)

Offline veu-1

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Offline veu-1

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Re: Queen Marie Antoinette
« Reply #400 on: April 09, 2007, 02:05:37 PM »












« Last Edit: April 09, 2007, 02:10:11 PM by veu-1 »

Offline veu-1

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Re: Queen Marie Antoinette
« Reply #401 on: April 09, 2007, 02:11:00 PM »



Offline veu-1

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Re: Queen Marie Antoinette
« Reply #402 on: April 12, 2007, 03:10:00 PM »
Thanks! ;)

Other pics:










Offline veu-1

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Re: Queen Marie Antoinette
« Reply #403 on: April 12, 2007, 03:13:34 PM »











Offline Antie

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Re: Queen Marie Antoinette
« Reply #404 on: April 15, 2007, 07:05:16 PM »
Two drawings:



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