Author Topic: The Ghosts in the Gardens  (Read 12531 times)

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Offline Robby

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The Ghosts in the Gardens
« on: August 18, 2005, 01:31:47 PM »
I've read the story about Eleanot Jourdain en Anne Moberly about there sightings in and around the Petit Trianon...Do you believe them? I believe them!
P.S. If you don't know were i'm talking about, just ask I will tell!
“Courage! I have shown it for years; think you I shall lose it at the moment when my sufferings are to end?” Marie Antoinette

Offline Prince_Lieven

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Re: The Ghosts in the Gardens
« Reply #1 on: August 18, 2005, 01:34:43 PM »
Mmmm . . . I don't know what you're talking about.
"How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?"
-Sherlock Holmes

"Men forget, but never forgive; women forgive, but never forget."

Offline Robert_Hall

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Re: The Ghosts in the Gardens
« Reply #2 on: August 18, 2005, 01:49:06 PM »
It is the tale of two English ladies [teachers, if I recall correctly] who were strolling through tha gardens  at Versailles.  At the "Hameau" they spotted what they took for a "ghost". To them, it was indeed Marie Antoinette, in her "garden" clothes [as opposed to the elaborate costume of the court].  She apparently was alone and of sad demeanour.
I believe the story as well, as a similiar experience happened to me whist visiting the same spot. I do, however. give the credit for the experience has having come from reading the above account, my imagination and the incredible sensation of being so close to someone I had read so much about and adored.
Life may not be the party we expected, but while we are here, might as well dance..

Do you want the truth, or my side of the story ?- Hank Ketchum.

Offline Robby

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Re: The Ghosts in the Gardens
« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2005, 01:54:30 PM »
Ok ill explain, two English wome, Eleanor Jourdaina and Anne Moberly were going on a trip to France, to see Le Petit Trianon. It was a cold and rainy day, and they walked in a beautufil garden, when they see three men, in very old clothes. The two women don't know were to go and Miss Jourdain spoke fluently Frech and asked one of the men wich way to go, the men answered in very strange French. And pointed to a little path. They walked that path, and the two women feeled a depressed feeling. They were in the woods, and saw a little chappel. In that chappel sat a man, he looked very angry and quickly the women walked further. Then they saw a fine young man, with curly hair. The man pointed the way to Le Petit Trianon. They looked at the path, en when they looked back, the gentleman was gone. So the walked that path. They saw Le Petit Trianon. When they reached the building, they saw a women, with long curly hair, a hat on and a fine sliky dress. They woman was very pretty and she was drawing. She looked up when she saw the women. And then looked back and draw again. Then they saw other tourists. The women saw, as what they described it as 'a ghsotly experience'. They saw this ghosts at the day that the Quuen and King were arrested.When the women saw a painting off Marie Antoinette they said that the woman that they saw drawing, looked like that women! When they found a old map off Le Petit Trianon, it looked the same way that the women discribed. Only the chappel was gone...

So sorry fore my bad grammar. I had to translate it.
“Courage! I have shown it for years; think you I shall lose it at the moment when my sufferings are to end?” Marie Antoinette

Offline Robert_Hall

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Re: The Ghosts in the Gardens
« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2005, 02:10:46 PM »
Very well said, Robby. Your grammar is fine. I forgot about the running men- supposedly  trying to warn the Queen of what was coming. There are many versions of this story, more or less embellished. I think the fact remains that the Queen was indeed at the PT/Hameau when events took to a violent turn and runners were sent to bring her back to the palace. The place is magical and it is very easy to forget reality there [which I suppose was the original idea]. I have spent hours just wandering the gardens at Versailles, and once had to be rescued at closing time [I became lost and did not care] !
Life may not be the party we expected, but while we are here, might as well dance..

Do you want the truth, or my side of the story ?- Hank Ketchum.

Offline Robby

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Re: The Ghosts in the Gardens
« Reply #5 on: August 18, 2005, 02:14:09 PM »
Quote
I became lost and did not care] !
 

Maybe if you watched at dark to the lighted palace, you can see Marie at her window looking outside...Ore closing a door, it's just so romanitc there... I'm in love with that palace... :)
“Courage! I have shown it for years; think you I shall lose it at the moment when my sufferings are to end?” Marie Antoinette

Offline Robert_Hall

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Re: The Ghosts in the Gardens
« Reply #6 on: August 18, 2005, 04:01:02 PM »
Robby, you are so correct ! It is simply magic at Versailles. Well, off season and without the mobs perhaps. To me, it was a pilgrimage almost. I had been reading about MA and the French royal family for years and when I finally was able to visit, I did not want to leave !  The palace apartements and the Trianons are all fine and glorious, but I just loved walking the gardens, letting the stories come to life almost.
When I saw "my MA ghost", it was a cool autumn late afternoon, with an ever so slight mist. Naturally this led to the illusion. When I was lost in a part of the garden not mapped out on the guide, I did not mind at all.  I discovered [well, it was discovery to me] statues and  dis-used fountains, awaiting restoration I suppose.  I was in heaven until I heard the guards calling !  Boy, was I off course.... They walked me back to the very front  so I could catch a late train back to Paris. Of course now it is all a suburb so catching a train would not be a problem. But I bet those guards are a lot more persistent in  finding after-hours tresspassers !
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Robert_Hall »
Life may not be the party we expected, but while we are here, might as well dance..

Do you want the truth, or my side of the story ?- Hank Ketchum.

Offline Lisa

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Re: The Ghosts in the Gardens
« Reply #7 on: August 19, 2005, 02:20:27 AM »
I never had such an experience but it reminds me what I've heard about the Louvre...Some night museum attendants speak about a little girl who is crying in the museum and some flowers...

Offline Robby

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Re: The Ghosts in the Gardens
« Reply #8 on: August 19, 2005, 04:11:08 AM »
Really Robert? Whoa!
And Lisa, i didn't know there was ghost in the Louvre.
“Courage! I have shown it for years; think you I shall lose it at the moment when my sufferings are to end?” Marie Antoinette

Offline Robby

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Re: The Ghosts in the Gardens
« Reply #9 on: August 19, 2005, 10:33:47 AM »
Quote
Robby, you are so correct ! It is simply magic at Versailles. Well, off season and without the mobs perhaps. To me, it was a pilgrimage almost. I had been reading about MA and the French royal family for years and when I finally was able to visit, I did not want to leave !  The palace apartements and the Trianons are all fine and glorious, but I just loved walking the gardens, letting the stories come to life almost.
When I saw "my MA ghost", it was a cool autumn late afternoon, with an ever so slight mist. Naturally this led to the illusion. When I was lost in a part of the garden not napped out on the guide, I did not mind at all.  I discovered [well, it was discovery to me] statues and  dis-used fountains, awaiting restoration I suppose.  I was in heaven until I heard the gurds calling !  Boy, was I off course.... They walked me back to the very front  so I could ccatch a late train back to Paris. Of course now it is all a suburb so catching a train would not be a problem. But I bet those guards are a lot more persistent in  finding after-hours tresspassers !


Thats a very interesting story, thanks fore telling that!

[glb]Robby[/glb]
“Courage! I have shown it for years; think you I shall lose it at the moment when my sufferings are to end?” Marie Antoinette

Offline etonexile

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Re: The Ghosts in the Gardens
« Reply #10 on: August 20, 2005, 11:24:40 AM »
There's a quite good old film..."Miss Morrisons's Ghosts"...with I think it was Wendy Hiller and Vivian Pickles...the two academics think they see 18th century ghosts in the gardens at Versailles....or were they just party goers from the costume party on the estate next door....?...Who can say...good film though......

dolgoruky18

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Re: The Ghosts in the Gardens
« Reply #11 on: September 15, 2007, 02:21:51 AM »
The story described on another thread is in all essentials true. In (I think) August 1901, two English ladies, Miss Mobberley and Miss Jourdain were on holiday in Paris and decided to visit Versailles. The weather was, as usual in August, very warm and, like today, Versailles was crowded with tourists. After viewing the main palace, the ladies decided to visit the Petit Trianon. Making their way across the vast, unshaded formal gardens, they looked in vain for signs which would point them in the right direction. It was then, according to Miss Mobberley and Miss Jourdain, that things became odd.

Feeling overcome by a general feeling of oppression and discomfort, the ladies felt that the trees and flowers were 'unreal'  -  as though painted on a kind of backdrop. They also lost sight of all other people. During the next  -  hour/hours ? -  the two ladies both together and seperately had encounters with people they were later convinced did not exist in their own time. They saw 'gardeners' wearing thre-cornered hats raking leaves and placing them in a rustic cart, an unpleasant, pockmarked man, dressed in a dark cloak and sitting on an ornamental rock, a smiling younger man who appeared from nowhere and urged them  -  in French, naturally  -  to hurry to "the chateau". Near The Hameau they saw a woman, dressed in peasant costume, passing a jug to another woman on an upper floor one of the buildings. They heard the sound of running feet, the swish of "long silk skirts" on the grass, the sound of a harpsichord and a faraway band playing a stately, repetitive air.

Arriving suddenly before the facade of the Petit Trianon, the ladies saw a lady apparently sketching or paintng at an easel. She was wearing a white "old-fashioned" dress, a large picture hat over blonde hair and around her shoulders a very pale green gauzy scarf or "fichu". As the ladies approached, the sketching lady looked up briefly "with an appearance of annoyance" and then returned to her drawing. Miss Mobberley later declared that the lady had slightly heavy, pretty features  -  although she "did not consider her attractive." On climbing to the terrace of the Petit Trianon, a man opened a side door and motioned the ladies towards the rear of the house. As they turned the corner they found themselves at the back of a queue waiting to enter the building, hundreds of chattering tourists passing by and vendors of souvenirs and ice-cream.

It was only when they returned to their Paris hotel that evening that the ladies spoke to each other of their curious experiences in the Gardens of Versailles. Some days later, they decided to return there. For hem it might as well have been a different landscape. The people they had seen were no longer there and they failed to recognise garden features they remembered perfectly.

Much later, Miss Mobberley and Miss Jourdain published a book which they entitled "An Adventure" in which they stated their conviction that they had somehow entered Marie-Antoinette's consciousness as it was in 1791 or 1792 and they had seen what she saw or remembered.

Ever since there have been many attempts to try to explain exactly what happened on that August day in 1901. An author, Lucille Ironmonger, wrote a book about the ladies in which she compared their experience with that which befell to women staing in a hotel in Dieppe in the late 1940s who were terrified by having to listen all one night to a tremendous battle involving bombs, artillery, explosions and the cries of dying men. They apparently heard a repeat performance of the Canadian wartime raid in which many were killed.

As for Versailles, visitors continue to report odd encounters in the grounds. Some report them, others will only share their eperiences privately.

Has anyone had or heard of similar experiences elsewhere ?

Offline Mari

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Re: The Ghosts in the Gardens
« Reply #12 on: September 16, 2007, 03:15:46 AM »
Showing a Guest around the Museum one day I talked quite a bit to this Gentleman who was in Historical Research. He was particularly interested in the Civil War era. Finally in passing he asked me if the Building was haunted. He then related a Story to me....He had been at a Civil War site walking along with his family. He started feeling really sick and he got left behind as he dawdled. He said that he then could hear cannon fire and smell smoke and hear charges. Since it was nearly twilight he started seeing figures charging the Hill. It only lasted three or four minutes but he is firmly convinced that somehow he saw a segment of the War as it happened. Since that time he has been fascinated with the era.

But as to the Story at Versailles how I wish they had found out who the Woman was sketching and asked some questions. Would that not have added to the Story....


Offline Mari

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Re: The Ghosts in the Gardens
« Reply #13 on: September 17, 2007, 03:21:23 AM »
I know that Historians are loathe to touch this subject but I find in particular this one incident fascinating...this information comes from this site and I do give both sides of it in the two postings.   www.museumofhoaxes.com/versailles.html

I found some more interesting information about the Versailles incident:the two women were Anne Moberly and Eleanor Jourdain, both academics, principal and vice-principal respectively of St. Hugh's College, Oxford. They were on vacation in France and decided to spend a day at Versailles.
When they further compared recollections they both remembered feeling that something strange had occurred in the garden, so they decided to each write down a separate account of what they had seen and compare notes.

It turned out that there were a number of figures whom Moberly had seen whom Jourdain had not, but on other details they agreed. Investigating further, Jourdain discovered that the day on which they had visited the palace was the anniversary of the sacking of the Tuileries in 1792, when Louis XVI and Marie Antoinette had witnessed the massacre of their Swiss Guards and had been imprisoned in the Hall of the Assembly

.Moberly came across a picture of Marie Antoinette drawn by the artist Wertmüller. To her astonishment it depicted the same sketching woman she had seen near the Petit Trianon. Even the clothes were the same. :)
« Last Edit: September 17, 2007, 03:35:02 AM by Mari »

Offline Mari

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Re: The Ghosts in the Gardens
« Reply #14 on: September 17, 2007, 03:26:47 AM »
continuing  :the two women decided to conduct a full-scale investigation of their own to prove that they had seen the ghost of Marie Antoinette. The accounts of Versailles they wrote in 1901 were the corner-stone of this investigation. They sought to prove that in these accounts they had accurately described what Versailles looked like in 1789.

The result of their investigation was the publication in 1911 of a book titled An Adventure. They published it under the pseudonyms of Miss Morison and Miss Lamont. This is some of the evidence they unearthed:

    * They had seen a plough, but on later trips they learned that no ploughs had been kept in the gardens of Versailles in 1901. However, an old plough had been displayed on the grounds in 1789.
    * They had crossed a small bridge, but on later trips they could not locate this same bridge. However, they discovered that a bridge had existed there in 1789.
    * They had seen two men in green coats. These men, they later learned, were wearing the uniform of Marie Antoinette's Swiss Guard.
    * They had seen a sinister, pock-marked man. This man exactly resembled Comte de Vaudreuil, an enemy of Marie Antoinette.
    * They saw a footman rush out of a building and slam a door shut behind himself. However, this door was actually barred and bolted shut when they visited, and had been kept so for many years.
    * Finally, the sketching lady herself could have been no one else but Marie Antoinette.

Later after their Deaths.......this was published

The most damaging analysis of their claims appeared in 1950, written by W.H. Salter. Salter concluded, based upon a close review of Jourdain and Moberly's correspondence with the Society for Psychical Research, that many details included in the accounts they had (supposedly) written in 1901 had actually been added at a much later date, in 1906, after the women had conducted extensive historical research. This discovery cast serious doubt upon their claims, because their entire case had rested upon the impossibility of the two of them, in 1901, being able to give an accurate description of 1789 Versailles.