Author Topic: Re: Anastasia Claimant - Anna Anderson a.k.a Franziska Schanzkowska Part 2  (Read 43212 times)

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Offline Annie

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Re: Anastasia Claimant - Anna Anderson a.k.a Franziska Schanzkowska Part 2
« Reply #285 on: October 21, 2005, 10:07:37 AM »
Not the half sister thing again. There is NO proof of this. It grew out of speculation on this forum started by a misquoted line in Klier and Mingay's book, and as Helen has told you she met them and they denied the theory and thought it was so ridiculous they wouldn't discuss it. So really you have nothing there other than a lot of wild guessing. If I did that, you'd bug me for my sources.

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Re: Anastasia Claimant - Anna Anderson a.k.a Franziska Schanzkowska Part 2
« Reply #286 on: October 21, 2005, 10:13:56 AM »
About Greg and the STR testing, I wrote: "I never did get the answer." To those who want to stir up trouble by twisting things around without cause, by writing Greg saying I wrote he refused to answer, please READ my words carefully. NO WHERE did I say Greg EVER refused, all I said was that I never got the answer, nothing more.

THAT is EXACTLY the kind of childish, high school garbage that makes my blood boil in the forum. Petty, selfish, obnoxious "children" emotionally speaking (not age in years) stirring up cr** for no good reason. WHOEVER you are, and YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE who wrote those emails should be ASHAMED of yourselves for acting like an 8th grade girl (though I know plenty of 8th grade girls who already KNOW better than that.)  PS your childish attempt didn't work, luckily Greg is a gentleman and fine person.

FOR THE RECORD, Greg and I are friends, and I was privileged and honored that he sent his book to me for my advance comments, and it was my pleasure to be of any small assistance to him on his wonderful book.

I need to shower again.


« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by admin »

Offline AGRBear

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Re: Anastasia Claimant - Anna Anderson a.k.a Franziska Schanzkowska Part 2
« Reply #287 on: October 21, 2005, 10:33:26 AM »
Quote
Not the half sister thing again. There is NO proof of this. It grew out of speculation on this forum started by a misquoted line in Klier and Mingay's book, and as Helen has told you she met them and they denied the theory and thought it was so ridiculous they wouldn't discuss it. So really you have nothing there other than a lot of wild guessing. If I did that, you'd bug me for my sources.


Annie,  I don't know what Kleir and Mingay  or what Helen's conversation has to do with the fact that Gertrude's birth and baptismal certificates cannot be found in the area in which the other children of Anton S.'s can be found.  

Penny and Greg,  Richard Schweitzer, others, and myself,  who have gone into the records of the area,  cannot find Gertrude, nee S., Ellerick's [Massie's spelling] birth or baptismal records.

AGRBear
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

Offline AGRBear

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Re: Anastasia Claimant - Anna Anderson a.k.a Franziska Schanzkowska Part 2
« Reply #288 on: October 21, 2005, 10:41:12 AM »
Quote
About Greg and the STR testing, I wrote: "I never did get the answer." To those who want to stir up trouble by twisting things around without cause, by writing Greg saying I wrote he refused to answer, please READ my words carefully. NO WHERE did I say Greg EVER refused, all I said was that I never got the answer, nothing more.

THAT is EXACTLY the kind of childish, high school garbage that makes my blood boil in the forum. Petty, selfish, obnoxious "children" emotionally speaking (not age in years) stirring up cr** for no good reason. WHOEVER you are, and YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE who wrote those emails should be ASHAMED of yourselves for acting like an 8th grade girl (though I know plenty of 8th grade girls who already KNOW better than that.)  PS your childish attempt didn't work, luckily Greg is a gentleman and fine person.

FOR THE RECORD, Greg and I are friends, and I was privileged and honored that he sent his book to me for my advance comments, and it was my pleasure to be of any small assistance to him on his wonderful book.

I need to shower again.




Some of us have been experiencing "rubbish" for quite some time and due to this experience often times come off harsh and irritated in our public posts.  Although I cannot abide to some of the descriptive words used by other posters,  I can certainly understand the anger behind their erruptions.

As of yesterday, three more posters have written to me saying they are leaving.  Two have returned but I doubt the third will return.


:'(

AGRBear
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by AGRBear »
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

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Re: Anastasia Claimant - Anna Anderson a.k.a Franziska Schanzkowska Part 2
« Reply #289 on: October 21, 2005, 10:51:09 AM »
Bear, to be fair, I get more than "several" private messages from users who find your "outside the box" thinking to be distracting, annoying, etc, who also threaten to leave because I tolerate it. There are many sides to these stories...

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Re: Anastasia Claimant - Anna Anderson a.k.a Franziska Schanzkowska Part 2
« Reply #290 on: October 21, 2005, 11:02:58 AM »
Yes,  I am guilty of thinking "outside the box" 8)

And, yes,  I am very aware there are many sides to every story. ;D


AGRBear  
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by AGRBear »
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

Offline etonexile

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Re: Anastasia Claimant - Anna Anderson a.k.a Franziska Schanzkowska Part 2
« Reply #291 on: October 21, 2005, 11:10:35 AM »
Quote

Annie,  I don't know what Kleir and Mingay  or what Helen's conversation has to do with the fact that Gertrude's birth and baptismal certificates cannot be found in the area in which the other children of Anton S.'s can be found.  

Penny and Greg,  Richard Schweitzer, others, and myself,  who have gone into the records of the area,  cannot find Gertrude, nee S., Ellerick's [Massie's spelling] birth or baptismal records.

AGRBear


Boo-hiss Pre-20th Century record keepers....didn't they know we'd need the obscure records of pointless people from then...now?....Tsk...vey non-British...

Offline Annie

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Re: Anastasia Claimant - Anna Anderson a.k.a Franziska Schanzkowska Part 2
« Reply #292 on: October 21, 2005, 12:13:23 PM »
Quote

Annie,  I don't know what Kleir and Mingay  or what Helen's conversation has to do with the fact that Gertrude's birth and baptismal certificates cannot be found in the area in which the other children of Anton S.'s can be found.  

AGRBear


Like I said before, I have an aunt who has no birth certificate, but everyone knows she's their sister. A family knows, and I'm sure the scientists got the story from the right people and were sure to get a maternal relative. They knew who she was, certificate or not, just like my aunt.

I don't know how they did it in Poland, but in the US, there were no official birth certificates until 1913! I know the British had them sooner because my mother in law gave  me her grandmother's birth certificate from the 1880's. My grandfather was born in the US in 1884 and his birth was recorded 3 days late, and this was just a record, not a real certificate. When my aunt was born in 1924, it must have slipped everyone's mind. That happened in the country in the old days, they'd keep waiting to go register the baby and then sometimes forgot. This doesn't mean there is any sinster plot to hide her paternity or identity. If you want to get into plots, I could say that one of the researchers found and destroyed Gertrude's certificate to keep the half sister nonnsense alive. But all we have is the knowledge of the family, and they knew Carl Maucher was the grandson of Gertrude, and Gertrude was FS's sister. There is no valid reason to doubt this.

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Annie »

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Re: Anastasia Claimant - Anna Anderson a.k.a Franziska Schanzkowska Part 2
« Reply #293 on: October 21, 2005, 12:25:35 PM »
Polish birth/baptism records in those days were usually only kept in the local churches. Do not forget that many of them were destroyed, burned, looted etc during both world wars. A vast amount of such information no longer exists for literally hundreds of thousands of people.  There are, for example, literally, no records what so ever for my entire Polish family from my grandmother back.

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Re: Anastasia Claimant - Anna Anderson a.k.a Franziska Schanzkowska Part 2
« Reply #294 on: October 21, 2005, 12:38:08 PM »
I am well aware of Polish records of the 1700s and 1800s.   Some of my family lived in the area of Poland for a time before they continued their trek to Russia.

As I have said before,  FS and all the other siblings of FS have been found but not Gertrude's.

AGRBear

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by AGRBear »
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

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Re: Anastasia Claimant - Anna Anderson a.k.a Franziska Schanzkowska Part 2
« Reply #295 on: October 21, 2005, 12:57:37 PM »
My grandmother came here in 1908. I'm not talking about 18th century records. Im talking about records from the Nicholas II period.

Offline Annie

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Re: Anastasia Claimant - Anna Anderson a.k.a Franziska Schanzkowska Part 2
« Reply #296 on: October 21, 2005, 01:26:23 PM »
That's true a lot of stuff was looted or destroyed in the world wars. It happened here, too, I am at a dead end with my genealogy research for one branch of my family because the King and Queen, VA county courthouse got torched in the US Civil War.

A lot was lost in the WW bombings, this is why I question the authenticity of FS medical records showing up now when they weren't around in 1938 and never found during the trial.

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Re: Anastasia Claimant - Anna Anderson a.k.a Franziska Schanzkowska Part 2
« Reply #297 on: October 21, 2005, 03:21:31 PM »
Quote
My grandmother came here in 1908. I'm not talking about 18th century records. Im talking about records from the Nicholas II period.


I've researched the Polish records of the 1700s, 1800s  while my relatives were on there way to Russia and  [which I should have added in my last post] into mid-1900s which when some of my relatives escaping Russia went back into the area known as Poland.

Yes, some areas are difficult to find records because of the wars, fires and floods.

However,  the information for FS and her siblings have been found,  as I've said, accept Gertrude's birh and/or baptismal records have not been found with the others.

Gertrud S. was living in the house of Anton S. and his second wife who was FS's  mother.

And, as I have stated before,  there are times when a silbing thought they were part of a family but for one reason or another  it's discovered they were taken into the family.  Remember, we're not talking about modern times,  we're talking about times when death often took a wife, a mother, a sister, a cousin, a neighbor....

I remember one time reading the records of one of my distant cousins.  Her name was Barbara.  She gave birth to 22 living children.  Children 1 to 21 died before they were ten years old.  Only the last one, a girl, lived to be an adult.  Yes,  Barbara survived 22 births.  Many mothers did not.  Husbands couldn't care for new infants who needed a breast with milk.  Sometimes the breast could have been a relative's, sometimes not.  

AGRBear
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by AGRBear »
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

Offline AGRBear

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Re: Anastasia Claimant - Anna Anderson a.k.a Franziska Schanzkowska Part 2
« Reply #298 on: October 21, 2005, 03:42:07 PM »
Quote
...[in part]
A lot was lost in the WW bombings, this is why I question the authenticity of FS medical records showing up now when they weren't around in 1938 and never found during the trial.


I understand the records were found, therefore, they must have escaped the bombing, fires, floods and theif.  So, obviously they have been around from the time FS entered the asylum.   Finding them in 1938 or 1960 or 2001 or 2004 was possible, it just took someone interested enough and took the time and effort.

AGRBear
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

Offline Annie

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Re: Anastasia Claimant - Anna Anderson a.k.a Franziska Schanzkowska Part 2
« Reply #299 on: October 21, 2005, 04:06:41 PM »
Well, bear, I have been told by doctors that records of patients who never return are discarded after 5 years. Some of my records from the 80's, which I would like to have now, are long gone.  I believe if any record of FS was around during the years of the trial (which lasted over 30 years!) surely some lawyer or detective or PI would have found them!

You 'understand' they were found, but you seem to be taking one poster's word for it, with no proof, no sources. That isn't like you, is it, bear? ;)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Annie »