Author Topic: What about...?  (Read 66756 times)

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Offline etonexile

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Re: What about...?
« Reply #15 on: August 22, 2005, 10:24:51 AM »
Do most people accept finger print evidence?....It was highly suspect in the late 19th century.....

Offline AGRBear

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Re: What about...?
« Reply #16 on: August 22, 2005, 12:01:34 PM »
There were fingerprints of GD Anastasia on a lesson book which AA's lawyers asked to be taken and matched to AA's but this was refused because at that time it would have meant the destruction of  the lesson book.   I'm not sure where this book is, now, but, today,  it would not be necessary to destroy the lesson book and it could be compared to AA's fingerprints which are still avaliable.

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« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by AGRBear »
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

Offline Annie

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Re: What about...?
« Reply #17 on: August 22, 2005, 03:06:28 PM »
I don't see anything that contradicts the DNA at all. There were so many he said she said comments, and contradictory things that confused people, and there was no way to prove them other than one person's word over the other (talking about shoes, height, etc.) So with the DNA, we found out who was right and who wasn't. There is no more mystery there. But there still is a fascinating story about how this woman pulled this off, and who helped her. Once we can finally put the identity issue to bed I hope that can finally be explored.

Have fun at the movie, I will do the same :D

Offline Rachael89

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Re: What about...?
« Reply #18 on: August 22, 2005, 04:25:38 PM »
Hi Annie

I was just wondering if you could explain how if AA was FS how did she speak Russian in her sleep in her years at Dalldorf asylum, if she was a Polish peasant who only knew German and a little Polish?

It would be interesting to hear an explanation.

Rachael
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Offline Malenkaya

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Re: What about...?
« Reply #19 on: August 22, 2005, 05:00:54 PM »
And how is it when Anna Anderson met with Felix Dassel she knew about "the man with the pockets"?  Even if she was fed information by people 'in the know' who is going to be thorough enough to make sure AA know this nickname that Anastasia gave to a random soldier wounded during the war?

That's one I would really like a reasonable answer for.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Malenkaya »
*Anastasia*

Offline Annie

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Re: What about...?
« Reply #20 on: August 22, 2005, 05:03:28 PM »
Quote
And how is it when Anna Anderson met with Felix Dassel she knew about "the man with the pockets"?  Even if she was fed information by people 'in the know' who is going to be thorough enough to come up with a nickname that Anastasia gave to a random soldier wounded during the war?

That's one I would really like a reasonable answer for.


I really suspect one of the Botkin kids on this one, or even someone who had met her early on such as Sophie B. or Lili Dehn. It may have been intentionally fed, or just mentioned or asked incidently and she pickedup on it. But SOMEBODY told her, maybe even Dashel himself, it may have been set up. While there is no proof these things happened there is also no proof it didn't happen. And since we know from DNA she wasn't Anastasia, the only mystery is WHO did it, when, and why. That's the kind of thing I'd like to find out.


« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Annie »

Offline Malenkaya

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Re: What about...?
« Reply #21 on: August 22, 2005, 05:06:17 PM »
Annie -

Thanks for the quick reply.  I respect that you have come to accept the DNA, despite being an AA supporter in the past.  I hope you can explore some new avenues and get some answers to the questions you are now seeking.

For those of us still exploring, what do you think about  Rachael's question?
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Offline Annie

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Re: What about...?
« Reply #22 on: August 22, 2005, 05:17:52 PM »
Quote
Annie -

Thanks for the quick reply.  I respect that you have come to accept the DNA, despite being an AA supporter in the past.  I hope you can explore some new avenues and get some answers to the questions you are now seeking.

For those of us still exploring, what do you think about  Rachael's question?


I have explored it all, I have been seeking for 31 years.  I used to be an AA supporter when I was younger, and was very upset to learn of the DNA results at the time. My initial reaction was, oh that can't be true, but the more I researched, the more I found out it WAS! Then I went back and examined all the other stuff, and for the first time I was able to finally see what really had likely happened,. and it all added up. Much of what I know now I learned from this forum, but it all means the same thing- AA=FS.

I have seen it all, and it all makes sense to me now.  She was not AN, she doesn't even look like her. I can't believe I was ever so blinded by wishful thinking to think she did. There is an explaination for everything, except HOW she and her supporters pulled off this charade, and if she did it on purpose or was so mentally ill she believed it herself. If she was, was she used by others in hopes of money? These are the remaining questions I want explored, and wasting time on 'was she AN' is only stopping us from finding the real answers beneath.

I'm not even ruling out the unlikely prospect that someone escaped. But if they did, it was not AA. Hanging onto this myth only stops us from hunting deeper for other ideas.

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Re: What about...?
« Reply #23 on: August 22, 2005, 06:28:10 PM »
Quote

I really suspect one of the Botkin kids on this one, or even someone who had met her early on such as Sophie B. or Lili Dehn..................



I don't think it could have been Lili Dehn - as AA met with Felix Dassel in Sept. 1927, she didn't even meet with Lili until the early 1950s.  My source for this is Peter Kurth's Riddle of AA.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Val289 »

Offline RealAnastasia

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Re: What about...?
« Reply #24 on: August 22, 2005, 07:15:14 PM »
Dear Bear:

                    You said things exactly like I would said them if my English was good enough. You understand very well the excercise I proposed here...But please! I'm not a "he" but a "she"! Well; at least until scientist will find I'm really a man and I'm faking my own gender! ;D

RealAnastasia

Offline AGRBear

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Re: What about...?
« Reply #25 on: August 22, 2005, 07:36:14 PM »
I don't think it's fair to name people and not have some kind of source to back up and accusation then ease off the accusation by saying that you have no proof.  


Quote

I really suspect one of the Botkin kids on this one, or even someone who had met her early on such as Sophie B. or Lili Dehn. It may have been intentionally fed, or just mentioned or asked incidently and she pickedup on it. But SOMEBODY told her, maybe even Dashel himself, it may have been set up. While there is no proof these things happened there is also no proof it didn't happen. And since we know from DNA she wasn't Anastasia, the only mystery is WHO did it, when, and why. That's the kind of thing I'd like to find out.


Please,  Annie,  do you have any idea when Botkin kids met AA for the first time?   Haven't you been reading the posts on the Timeline which shows many the people you think either purposely or accidently fed her information did NOT enter her life until later.  

Quote


I don't think it could have been Lili Dehn - as AA met with Felix Dassel in Sept. 1927, she didn't even meet with Lili until the early 1950s.  My source for this is Peter Kurth's Riddle of AA.


So,  if it's true AA wasn't GD Anastasia, then, yes, I agree, she was fed information.   Who, if not the people Annie has suggested,  was with her in her early days who could have known all of the following:

Quote
And how is it when Anna Anderson met with Felix Dassel she knew about "the man with the pockets"?  Even if she was fed information by people 'in the know' who is going to be thorough enough to make sure AA know this nickname that Anastasia gave to a random soldier wounded during the war?

That's one I would really like a reasonable answer for.


How did AA know about the story that a German intelligence officer saw GD Anastasia in a cart and that she was taken to the grounds of the Germany embassy in Bucherest.  This man testified to this fact in AA's trial?

How did AA know about GD Ernst of Hesse's secret to Russia during WWI?

As for the languages AA knew and FS did not know, there is an entire thread about what FS didn't know before WW I when she went to Berlin and what AA knew.

AGRBear

PS  Sorry Real Anastasia.  I don't know why I keep referring to you as a "he".  I'll go back and correct.

 
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by AGRBear »
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

Offline AGRBear

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Re: What about...?
« Reply #26 on: August 22, 2005, 08:34:28 PM »
This is on the thread about the Differences between AA and FS.  Please note the languages.   There you will find the sources about each of the following:

Quote
Differences between AA and FS are:  
-------   
I. Photographs:  
Photograph comparisons won't make everyone happy as to their looking alike....    
   
II.  Shoe sizes  
FS wore shoes that were three sizes larger than AA    
 AA wore shoes that were three sizes smaller than FS  
   
Shoes sizes still doesn't accomplish any agreement even though at the trial  there  shown that there was three size difference.  
   
III. Pregnancy  
AA- Evidence of a pregnancy but no proof of when.  Claimed to have had a son.  
FS- No pregnancy known.    
   
IV. Scars.  
FS -  no unusual scars remembered by family; no scars inflicted in factory accident  
AA - scars which were claimed to have been inflicted by a bayonet;  small scar on finger claimed to have been from a door; scar from removal of a mole..... Some scar may have been caused by tb and surgery.  Penny mentioned that AA had a "grove" on the side of her head which may prove to be a injury of some kind had occured....  
   
IIV. Height  
FS is reported to have been 5'6", which is about 4 inches taller than AA - Helen was th source on this fact.  
AA was about 5'2"" tall  The source was a medical report fr Dalldorf Asylum  
   
IIIV.  Knowledge of Languages  
FS - knew Low German and Katchoubian.  Did not know Russian or English.  
AA - knew proper Russian, High German, French and English  
   
IX.  Ears pierced  
FS - one retouched photo shows earrings and pierced ears but this may be in error  
AA - doesn't appear to have pierced ears  
#No one cares about pierced ears for either FS or AA  
 
X.  
FS - Was reported  missing in March 1920.  Her brother Felix received a birthday card from FS on 17 Feb 1920  
AA - 9:00 PM, 18 Feb 1920  The person who is to be known as Anna Anderson jumped off the Bendler Bridge into the Landwehr Canal, in Berlin.  She was pulled out of the water by Police Serg. Hallman and taken to Elizabeth Hospial in Lutzowstrasse  
  ------
 
Help me add to the list of differences, if you can and please give the source.
 
For those of you who'd like to make a list of similarities, please do go to the thread  AA and FS Similarities.  
   
AGRBear
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by AGRBear »
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

Offline Annie

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Re: What about...?
« Reply #27 on: August 22, 2005, 09:36:11 PM »
Yeah yeah yeah, blah blah blah, like I said all that shoe and language and height stuff means NOTHING because it is all contradictory from one report to the next, and it is subjective as to each person's humanly fallible memory or even intentional lies.That is NO PROOF, especially not compared to the DNA.

It's like somebody in a court case saying, well, I thought I saw Joe at Burger King in a blue shirt at 10PM, and somebody else goes, no, he was at hardee's in a red shirt at 9:59 so that can't be him! But the DNA proves Joe was at the murder scene at 10:01, so those people were either mistaken or lying. It does not hold up like scientific evidence.

Offline Annie

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Re: What about...?
« Reply #28 on: August 22, 2005, 09:43:27 PM »
Quote
I don't think it's fair to name people and not have some kind of source to back up and accusation then ease off the accusation by saying that you have no proof.  


As I said, your 'source' doesn't really 'back anything up' if it's only one person's recorded quote or guess and we can't prove it's true! Just because someone said it and it was written down does NOT make it proof!

And again, you IGNORE the PROOF and DOCUMENTATION of valid scientific evidence, so don't talk to me about 'sources' as long as you fail to acknowledge that!



Quote
Please,  Annie,  do you have any idea when Botkin kids met AA for the first time?   Haven't you been reading the posts on the Timeline which shows many the people you think either purposely or accidently fed her information did NOT enter her life until later.  


Do YOU really know? How do you know they didn't correspond by letter or telephone before their actual meeting? SOMEBODY told her that stuff, she was not AN!!


Quote
So,  if it's true AA wasn't GD Anastasia, then, yes, I agree, she was fed information.   Who, if not the people Annie has suggested,  was with her in her early days who could have known all of the following:


I don't know, but somebody did, and that is what we need to find out. That is the interesting mystery now, not her identity, that is solved. But we still need to find out who did this, when, how and why!


Quote
How did AA know about the story that a German intelligence officer saw GD Anastasia in a cart and that she was taken to the grounds of the Germany embassy in Bucherest.  This man testified to this fact in AA's trial?


And I can say I saw Tom Cruise eliminating on the Washington Monument, does that make it true? She was NEVER on the grounds of the German embassy in Bucharest! There was no 2800 cart ride in the mud lasting 18 months through long winter weather with a bloodied girl oh PLEASE this did not happen, wake up!


Quote
How did AA know about GD Ernst of Hesse's secret to Russia during WWI?


NO PROOF other than ONE person's presumed comment that this even happened. It may be totally made up.

Quote
As for the languages AA knew and FS did not know, there is an entire thread about what FS didn't know before WW I when she went to Berlin and what AA knew.


And again, it's all speculation, contradictory, and he said she said nonsense we cannot prove.

Sorry Real Anastasia the thread is gone off on a tangent, so did mine, it seems they ALL do on this forum!

Offline lexi4

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Re: What about...?
« Reply #29 on: August 22, 2005, 10:16:49 PM »
Quote
Dear Bear:

                     You said things exactly like I would said them if my English was good enough. You understand very well the excercise I proposed here...But please! I'm not a "he" but a "she"! Well; at least until scientist will find I'm really a man and I'm faking my own gender! ;D

RealAnastasia

RealAnastasia, You have a wonderful sense of humor!
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely, in a pretty and well preserved body; but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming, "Wow ---- What a ride!!!"