Author Topic: Alexandra Pavlovna  (Read 70106 times)

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Offline Alexandrina-Sofia

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Re: Alexandra Pavlovna
« Reply #30 on: August 16, 2009, 02:11:48 AM »
Portrait of GDss Alexandra Pavlovna in Hungarian national costume.





Portraits Josef of Habsburg:

1788



1796



A. Ritt, 1799



RomanovsFan4Ever

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Re: Alexandra Pavlovna
« Reply #31 on: August 19, 2009, 10:52:31 AM »
Grand Duchess Alexandra Pavlovna Romanova of Russia, and Palatina of Hungary, daughter of Tsar Paul I
By V. Borovikovsky.


Offline Dru

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Re: Alexandra Pavlovna
« Reply #32 on: September 07, 2009, 08:36:51 PM »
Does anyone know anything about Alexandra's relationship with her husband?  I'm not certain, but I think she actually had feelings for Gustav IV of Sweden, who basically left her at the altar upon learning that she would not be converting to Lutheranism; surely a rejection like that would have adversely affected her outlook on life and love.  And her marriage to Archduke Joseph was a political match, but did they like each other?  I've read that some of his relatives resented her because of her Orthodox faith, and were not especially kind to her.  Joseph had a mausoleum built for her after her death, but I'm fairly sure his Catholic family denied her a proper burial.

Offline Svetabel

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Re: Alexandra Pavlovna
« Reply #33 on: September 08, 2009, 01:13:16 AM »
Does anyone know anything about Alexandra's relationship with her husband?  I'm not certain, but I think she actually had feelings for Gustav IV of Sweden, who basically left her at the altar upon learning that she would not be converting to Lutheranism; surely a rejection like that would have adversely affected her outlook on life and love.  And her marriage to Archduke Joseph was a political match, but did they like each other?  I've read that some of his relatives resented her because of her Orthodox faith, and were not especially kind to her.  Joseph had a mausoleum built for her after her death, but I'm fairly sure his Catholic family denied her a proper burial.

Alexandra had feelings for Gustav as she hadn't had other chances for courting by some another Prince - don't forget her possessive grandmother wanted the Russian-Swedish alliance since Alexandra's childhood. So the little Grand Duchess used to think about Gustav as her future husband and convinced herself in love with him. The reason of Gustav's leaving Alexandra was not so simple as her not-converting into Lutheranism, there were political reasons more influental than converting-non-converting.
Of course she was hurt by Gustav's behaviuor and didn't understand him  and this affected her much on further life. Archduke Joseph was a nice guy who loved his Russian wife but he definitely was so weak in character that he coudln't defend Alexandra from the jealousy at the Viennese court. The well-known fact is that the Empress hated Alexandra as the young Grand Duchess was pretty and had fabulouis jewellery collection as well as enourmous dowry.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2009, 07:07:31 AM by Svetabel »

Offline Marc

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Re: Alexandra Pavlovna
« Reply #34 on: September 08, 2009, 04:43:41 AM »
You mean dowry?Would it be similar situation like Maria Pavlovna-younger and the Swedish court?

Offline Svetabel

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Re: Alexandra Pavlovna
« Reply #35 on: September 08, 2009, 07:06:28 AM »
You mean dowry?Would it be similar situation like Maria Pavlovna-younger and the Swedish court?

Yes, sorry for the mistype. Of course dowry : )

Though I can't exactly  understand ypur point. Do you mean that Swedish court envied the jewellery of MP-younger?

Offline CountessKate

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Re: Alexandra Pavlovna
« Reply #36 on: September 08, 2009, 07:48:31 AM »
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The well-known fact is that the Empress hated Alexandra as the young Grand Duchess was pretty and had fabulouis jewellery collection as well as enourmous dairy.

I'm never sure whether these stories were genuine or just court gossip.  The Grand Duchesses usually didn't fit well into foreign courts when they had to take any but the first rank - they were brought up to believe themselves the creme de la creme, they had huge dowries and splendid jewels, and were conditioned by the Russian court to expect everyone else to give way to them, sometimes quite inappropriately.  Their religion of course was usually different from that of the court they married into, which again singled them out.  They generally seemed to be unaware of the antagonism they aroused, since of course they were usually fairly young when they married and pretty naive about other courts, and often attributed the hostility of the royal families and courts they married into to the sort of jealousy Svetabel describes.  The lack of enthusiasm at the British court for Maria Alexandrovna, who married the Duke of Edinburgh, was sometimes sometimes laid at the door of the wonderful jewels which outshone those of her sisters-in-law, but actually it was the fact the Russian court pushed for her to be given a higher rank than she was entitled to as the wife of a younger son of the sovereign which did the damage (she certainly did not outshine her sisters-in-law in looks!).  I could see the same sort of irritation might occur at the Vienese court.  The Empress Maria Theresa, daughter of that very tough cookie Maria Carolina of Naples, doesn't really sound the sort of woman to be jealous of a sister-in-law without provocation, but she does sound like the sort of person who would keep a very junior brother-in-law's wife in her place.  Alexandra sounds a nice young woman but she was 16 when she married and probably not very clued up to a court like that of Vienna which was very different from Russia and where she was pretty far down the pecking order - and they thought themselves quite as important as anyone from a jumped-up dynasty which didn't even have the same religion.  She may well have quite innocently had expectations and feelings of entitlement relating to her rank which might have made her appear too big for her boots and caused a lot of hostility.  And at Vienna, she was pretty far away from her family and she had no married elder sisters or relatives nearby - for example in smaller German courts - to help her adjust and smooth her path with the Austrians.  Her sister Elena, at the court of Mecklenburg-Schwerin, seemed to have an easier time - it is noteworthy that she was married to the heir to the duchy so took the second rank after her mother-in-law and therefore didn't have to feel that she was being downgraded from her high position.

Quote
Do you mean that Swedish court envied the jewellery of MP-younger?

I don't know if that was what Marc meant, but it suggests that these sorts of stories persisted across the generations!

Offline Dru

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Re: Alexandra Pavlovna
« Reply #37 on: September 08, 2009, 11:49:48 AM »
Does anyone know anything about Alexandra's relationship with her husband?  I'm not certain, but I think she actually had feelings for Gustav IV of Sweden, who basically left her at the altar upon learning that she would not be converting to Lutheranism; surely a rejection like that would have adversely affected her outlook on life and love.  And her marriage to Archduke Joseph was a political match, but did they like each other?  I've read that some of his relatives resented her because of her Orthodox faith, and were not especially kind to her.  Joseph had a mausoleum built for her after her death, but I'm fairly sure his Catholic family denied her a proper burial.

Alexandra had feelings for Gustav as she hadn't had other chances for courting by some another Prince - don't forget her possessive grandmother wanted the Russian-Swedish alliance since Alexandra's childhood. So the little Grand Duchess used to think about Gustav as her future husband and convinced herself in love with him. The reason of Gustav's leaving Alexandra was not so simple as her not-converting into Lutheranism, there were political reasons more influental than converting-non-converting.
Of course she was hurt by Gustav's behaviuor and didn't understand him  and this affected her much on further life. Archduke Joseph was a nice guy who loved his Russian wife but he definitely was so weak in character that he coudln't defend Alexandra from the jealousy at the Viennese court. The well-known fact is that the Empress hated Alexandra as the young Grand Duchess was pretty and had fabulouis jewellery collection as well as enourmous dowry.
Thank you kindly, Svetabel.  I knew about Alexandra's fabulous dowry, and about the jealousy she encountered at the Austrian court, but beyond basic biographical information, I know next to nothing about Alexandra herself (character, personality, etc.), and I don't know anything about Archduke Joseph.  Poor Alexandra, though.  Her story is so tragic.

Offline violetta

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Re: Alexandra Pavlovna
« Reply #38 on: September 08, 2009, 12:06:23 PM »
In a book by Albina Danilova called THE FIVE PRINCESSES  (it`s about Paul I`s daughters) I read abot an interesting incident. As there was a lot of envy about Alexandra`s jewellery her mother-in-law forbade her to wear it during one of the theatre performances. I think she was angry about her daughter-in-law`s fabulous tiara. Alexandra found a solution  she appeared with fresh flowers in her hair, and ahe was stunning, and the audience was stunned by her freshness, purity, youth....No need to add that her mother-in-law was enraged...

Offline Svetabel

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Re: Alexandra Pavlovna
« Reply #39 on: September 08, 2009, 12:49:58 PM »
..No need to add that her mother-in-law was enraged...

That was sister-in-law actually, spouse of Emperor Franz.

Offline violetta

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Re: Alexandra Pavlovna
« Reply #40 on: September 08, 2009, 03:35:42 PM »
thanks for correcting me, svetabel. i`m not an expert on the habsburgs. correct me if i`m wrong but the other reason for her sister-in-law`s dislike was the fact that the emperor`s first wife was Alexandra`s aunt, one of the Wurtemberg princesses. they say that the emperor found that alexandra took after her late aunt. the emperor like alexandra even more due to this fact.
as for alexandra`s burial , the situation got complicated not only due to the fact that she remained orthodox but her death coincided with the murder of her father paul . her russian reltives, due to the mess after the murder , did not really interfere with the issue of alexandra`s burial...

Offline Marc

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Re: Alexandra Pavlovna
« Reply #41 on: September 08, 2009, 04:59:30 PM »
You mean dowry?Would it be similar situation like Maria Pavlovna-younger and the Swedish court?

Yes, sorry for the mistype. Of course dowry : )

Though I can't exactly  understand ypur point. Do you mean that Swedish court envied the jewellery of MP-younger?


Yes,I thought of that...think that she had the same kind of problem at Swedish court...

Offline Svetabel

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Re: Alexandra Pavlovna
« Reply #42 on: September 09, 2009, 05:30:38 AM »
You mean dowry?Would it be similar situation like Maria Pavlovna-younger and the Swedish court?

Yes, sorry for the mistype. Of course dowry : )

Though I can't exactly  understand ypur point. Do you mean that Swedish court envied the jewellery of MP-younger?


Yes,I thought of that...think that she had the same kind of problem at Swedish court...

I think that she had problems at the Swedish court also becouse of her conflicting emotions and difficult character.It's another story though.

Offline Svetabel

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Re: Alexandra Pavlovna
« Reply #43 on: September 09, 2009, 05:47:22 AM »
thanks for correcting me, svetabel. i`m not an expert on the habsburgs. correct me if i`m wrong but the other reason for her sister-in-law`s dislike was the fact that the emperor`s first wife was Alexandra`s aunt, one of the Wurtemberg princesses. they say that the emperor found that alexandra took after her late aunt. the emperor like alexandra even more due to this fact.
as for alexandra`s burial , the situation got complicated not only due to the fact that she remained orthodox but her death coincided with the murder of her father paul . her russian reltives, due to the mess after the murder , did not really interfere with the issue of alexandra`s burial...

Yes, the story about Emperor's affection to Alexandra becouse of her resembling his 1st spouse is correct.
The burial of the young Grand Duchess was really in a mess as her widower was so weak and devastated that was able only to weep and send desperate letters to Russia letters about his grief and pain. After all the Russian priest who had been at Alexandra took matters into his hands and organized the proper (not really proper in the Imperial point of view) burial.

Offline Alexandrina-Sofia

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Re: Alexandra Pavlovna
« Reply #44 on: November 26, 2009, 08:42:11 AM »
"... when the grand duchess had the Cesarsky their Majesties, the Emperor, seeing beyond the expectations in the face of his niece's life-like images of his first wife, Empress Elizabeth (Elizabeth was the aunt of Alexandra Pavlovna  - sister of her mother, Maria Feodorovna) shuddered.
Remembering happy with her cohabitation resulted in the greatest embarrassment of his spirit, which is uniformly highly distressed heart of the Empress, the current second wife! After this was kindled against the innocent victim irreconcilable vengeance "- from the memoirs of Alexandra Pavlovna's confessor, Father Andrew Samborskii.