Author Topic: Carlist pretenders to the Spanish throne and their wives  (Read 45301 times)

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Offline umigon

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Carlist pretenders to the Spanish throne and their wives
« on: August 23, 2005, 04:13:06 PM »
With this thread I would like to present to you the "Queens" of the Carlist dynasty.


Carlist Queens


1. María Francisca of Braganza (1800-1834), daughter of King Joao VI of Portugal and infanta Carlota Joaquina of Spain. She married Carlos V in 1816.



2. María Teresa de Braganza (1793-1874), sister of the previous queen, she married her brother-in-law Carlos V in 1838.



3. María Carolina de Borbón (1820-1861), daughter of King Francesco of the Two Sicilies and Infanta María Isabel of Spain. She married Carlos VI in 1850.



4. Beatriz de Habsburgo-Lorena (1824-1906), daughter of Francis IV of Modena and Maria Beatrice of Savoy, she married Juan III in 1847.



5. Margarita de Borbón (1847-1893), daughter of Carlo III of Parma and Louise Marie of France, she married Carlos VII in 1867.



6. María Berta de Rohan (1860-1945), daughter of Arthur de Rohan and Maria Gabriella von Waldstein, she married Carlos VII in 1894.



7. María de las Nieves de Braganza (1852-1941), daughter of former King Miguel of Portugal and Adelheid von Löwenstein, she married Alfonso Carlos I in 1871.



8. Magdalena de Borbón-Busset (1898-1984), daughter of Georges de Bourbon-Busset and Marie Joséphine Jeanne de Kerret de Quillien, she married future Javier I in 1927.



9. Irene de Holanda (1939), daughter of Queen Juliana of the Netherlands and Bernard zur Lippe-Biesterfeld. She married future King Carlos Hugo in 1964. Although they were divorced in 1981, she is still considered by the purist carlists as their Queen.

« Last Edit: October 25, 2010, 03:06:00 PM by trentk80 »
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Offline trentk80

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Re: Carlist pretenders to the Spanish throne and their wives
« Reply #1 on: August 23, 2005, 04:44:29 PM »
Quote
3. María Carolina de Borbón (1820-1861), daughter of King Francesco of the Two Sicilies and Infanta María Isabel of Spain. She married Carlos VI in 1850.


Do you have more information about her, Umigon? I think it's funny that she married the Carlist pretender, while her elder sister Maria Cristina was the regent of Spain and her niece Isabella II was the rightful sovereign.
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Offline umigon

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Re: Carlist pretenders to the Spanish throne and their wives
« Reply #2 on: August 23, 2005, 04:49:17 PM »
Quote

Do you have more information about her, Umigon? I think it's funny that she married the Carlist pretender, while her elder sister Maria Cristina was the regent of Spain and her niece Isabella II was the rightful sovereign.


Well, much more funny is that the eldest of the sisters, Luisa Carlota, was married to infante Francisco de Paula, who also supported Isabel II's cause and another of their sisters, María Amelia, was married to infante Sebastián Gabriel, stepson of Carlos V and also a supporter of Isabel II's cause!

Yes, María Carolina was a sweet and delicate woman who really loved her husband. Carlos VI, who had been a womanizer in his youth, found in María Carolina the calm he needed. They were quite a happy couple, but sadly, their marriage proved barren. In January 1861 they visited infante Fernando, Carlos VI's youngest brother, who was sick with smallpox. The carlist royal couple contracted the illness and both of them died with a day of difference and soon after infante Fernando's death. Quite a tragic story!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by umigon »
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Offline cimbrio

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Re: Carlist pretenders to the Spanish throne and their wives
« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2005, 06:50:07 AM »
I've read that there is some debate as to who is the legal Carlist claimant, since the true male line died out in 1936. The main and more known branch is those descended from Roberto I of Parma, whose sister married Carlos, Duque de Madrid. However, another branch, the Habsburg-Lorraine (Tuscanny branch) are also claimants to the rights as legal Carlist claimants. The claim comes through the marriage of Carlos and Margherita's eldest daughter, who was the sister of Jaime I, who died in 1931 and was single and evidently childless. He was "succeeded" by his ageing uncle, who died a few years later. Then the debate starts. The son of Margherita's brother's son, Francisco Javier (Javier I) or Carlos and Marguerita's daughter's son Anton (his eldest brother married morganatically and then divorced). Can anyone say anythign about these pretenders, and moreover, their "queens"?

PS-That Archduke Anton was married to Princess Ileana of Romania. Just a note for those who couldn't figure out who the heck I'm talking about.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2010, 08:51:28 PM by trentk80 »

Offline cimbrio

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Re: Carlist pretenders to the Spanish throne and their wives
« Reply #4 on: August 24, 2005, 06:51:59 AM »
This is what Wikipedia offers for the Late Pretenders:

After Alfonso Carlos' death, dynastic seniority — after the Salic law — fell upon Alfonso XIII, former constitutional King of Spain and then in exile at Rome, therefore, at least in theory, ending the family split. But according to the theory of legitimacy in exercise, many Carlists thought that Alfonso XIII and his heir Juan de Borbón were radically disqualified to head the "Cause". They cited the doubts over Alfonso XII's paternity to dismiss him as illegitimate and his descendants as thus ineligible for the throne.

Alfonso Carlos had named in 1936 Prince Francis Xavier of Borbón-Parma as regent, as he was the nearest Bourbon who shared the Carlist ideals. During the Second World War, Prince Xavier returned to the Belgian army, where he had served during World War I. He was demobilized and joined the French maquis. He was taken prisoner by the Nazis and sent to Natzweiler and Dachau, where the American troops liberated him in 1945.

In 1952 he laid openly his claims to the Throne, which he ceded in 1975 to his eldest son Carlos-Hugo, married to Princess Irene of the Netherlands. After the definitive break with Franco (1965–1967), under the latter's direction, his group switched to a leftist Titoist, autogestionary socialist movement. His brother, Sixto of Borbon-Parma, has headed a far right split.

In 1980, Carlos-Hugo left the political arena, but did not abdicate his rights.

In 1958, a sizable group of Carlists, recognized Juan de Borbón as his Head.

From 1943 to 1953, the Archduke Carlos-Pio of Habsburg-Lorraine-Tuscany, claimed also the Head of the House.

Beside them, there were other factions, which recognized neither of the above. Some were tightly integrated in the Movimiento Nacional, some were not.

Most of this events happened under Franco's regime, which skillfully played one group against the other, and all of them against Don Juan.

Offline Prince_Lieven

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Re: Carlist pretenders to the Spanish throne and their wives
« Reply #5 on: August 24, 2005, 06:57:16 AM »
I thought that when the last Carlist died he designated the Bourbon-Parmas as his heirs, and that Prince Hugo of Bourbon Parma, who is married to Princess Irene of the Netherlands, is the current claimant . . . I didn't know there was a dispute . . .  ???
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Offline umigon

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Re: Carlist pretenders to the Spanish throne and their wives
« Reply #6 on: August 24, 2005, 07:05:01 AM »


A Carlist who really defends his or her ideals would recognise the Bourbon-Parmas as their legitimate Kings. When the dynastic split took place in 1833 Fernando VII banned don Carlos from succeeding and don Carlos did the same for both Fernando and Francisco de Paula.

The senior male branch of the family after Alfonso Carlos's death was, however, Alfonso XIII, whom many carlitsts saw as their new king.

Alfonso Carlos designated Javier de Borbón-Parma as his heir, so he beacme the new carlist king.

Carlos of Austria-Tuscany claimed the throne, but his claim was not carlist but stupid, it broke all of the carlist ideals!!!
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Offline Prince_Lieven

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Re: Carlist pretenders to the Spanish throne and their wives
« Reply #7 on: August 24, 2005, 08:25:53 AM »
Quote

A Carlist who really defends his or her ideals would recognise the Bourbon-Parmas as their legitimate Kings. When the dynastic split took place in 1833 Fernando VII banned don Carlos from succeeding and don Carlos did the same for both Fernando and Francisco de Paula.

The senior male branch of the family after Alfonso Carlos's death was, however, Alfonso XIII, whom many carlitsts saw as their new king.

Alfonso Carlos designated Javier de Borbón-Parma as his heir, so he beacme the new carlist king.

Carlos of Austria-Tuscany claimed the throne, but his claim was not carlist but stupid, it broke all of the carlist ideals!!!


??? ??? ??? I need something to drink . . . this is sooo puzzling! What was Carlos of Austria Tuscany's claim? who was he descended from?
"How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?"
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Offline umigon

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Re: Carlist pretenders to the Spanish throne and their wives
« Reply #8 on: August 24, 2005, 08:38:32 AM »
For some Carlos de Habsburgo-Lorena y Borbón (1909-1953) was the King Carlos VIII of Spain.

He was the son of carlist "infanta" doña Blanca, eldest daughter of Carlos VII, and Archduke Leopoldo Salvatore of Tuscany.

When Alfonso Carlos died in 1936 the situation of the Carlist Succession was , at least, ambiguous. He had not really named Javier of Parma his successor, but the Regent. Even more complicated, Javier was not his direct relative, but a distant cousin and his wife's nephew, a fact that made many think Alfonso Carlos was acting with favoritism towards Javier.

In this year, 1936, some carlists proclaimed that there was a new... Queen! Blanca de Borbón y Borbón, the daughter of Carlos VII and niece of Alfonso Carlos. That was too much, the carlists had split from the Spanish Royal Family in 1833 because they said Isabel II, as a woman, had no right to the throne. Why then proclaiming a queen a hundred years later??

So Blanca abdicated her 'rights' to her youngest son, Carlos of Tuscany. Not only this claim was stupid, in my opinion, because it came from a woman (thus destroying the carlist ideals which had made Carlos María Isidro flee from Spain in 1833) but because don Carlos was chosen because his brothers had married morganatically or renounced to their 'rights' (like Archduke Anton, who was married to Ileana of Roumania, so this wasn't a morganatic marriage). The case is that Carlos was also married morganatically to Christa Satzger de Bálványos!

Don Carlos would also be proclaimed King in 1945 by some pro-fascist carlists, who wanted General Franco to crown Carlos as the new king of Spain, as Carlos was a well known fascist.

From my point of view the claim that both Javier of Parma (descendant of Duke Filippo of Parrma) or Alfonso XIII (descendant on the male line of Francisco de Paula )could have to the Carlist inheritance was stronger than that of Carlos of Tuscany who was grandson of Carlos VII, yes, but on the female line!
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Offline Prince_Lieven

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Re: Carlist pretenders to the Spanish throne and their wives
« Reply #9 on: August 24, 2005, 08:43:19 AM »
Thanks for explaining, umigon!

How silly that the whole Carlist things started over people who adhered to the Salic Law, but then when they could not find an heir they selected someone through the female line!  :o
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Offline umigon

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Re: Carlist pretenders to the Spanish throne and their wives
« Reply #10 on: August 24, 2005, 08:46:26 AM »
Yes, it is very silly indeed, that is why I said Carlos of Tuscany's claim was stupid!


I will post some photos of Blanca and Carlos in a minute, just wait until I have scanned them!
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Offline umigon

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Re: Carlist pretenders to the Spanish throne and their wives
« Reply #11 on: August 24, 2005, 08:52:11 AM »




On the picture of the left we can see a very young Blanca with her father, Carlos VII. On the right, Blanca and Leopoldo when they were just married.




Carlos VIII with the typical carlist beret!
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Re: Carlist pretenders to the Spanish throne and their wives
« Reply #12 on: August 24, 2005, 08:53:30 AM »
From my opinion, if I were a Carlist I'd recognise Juan carlos I as my King ANYWAY because he is genealogically the eldest surviving male offspring of a descendant of Carlos IV who didn't renounce his rights. When the Carlist male line died out, the rights should have passed to the descendants of Carlos V's younger brother Francisco de Paula, and his eldest son had been married to isabel II anyway, and his descendants were the kings of Spain..

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Re: Carlist pretenders to the Spanish throne and their wives
« Reply #13 on: August 24, 2005, 08:55:18 AM »
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From my opinion, if I were a Carlist I'd recognise Juan carlos I as my King ANYWAY because he is genealogically the eldest surviving male offspring of a descendant of Carlos IV who didn't renounce his rights. When the Carlist male line died out, the rights should have passed to the descendants of Carlos V's younger brother Francisco de Paula, and his eldest son had been married to isabel II anyway, and his descendants were the kings of Spain..


That sounds pretty clear. Surely Juan Carlos' claim to the throne is indisputable.
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Offline umigon

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Re: Carlist pretenders to the Spanish throne and their wives
« Reply #14 on: August 24, 2005, 08:57:34 AM »


Yes, that is true, but Carlos V 'banned' Francisco de Paula's descendants from inheriting the Crown. That was not valid here in Spain, but it was for carlists, so here is another part of the dynastic problem. Genealogically, yes, Juan Carlos is the rightful heir, but maybe for carlists Carlos Hugo is the rightful heir, as his ancestors were not banned from the Carlist succession!
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