Author Topic: Carlist pretenders to the Spanish throne and their wives  (Read 45284 times)

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Offline frohsdorf

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Re: Carlist pretenders to the Spanish throne and their wives
« Reply #30 on: June 08, 2006, 11:01:19 PM »
Beatrice of  Austria -Este (1824-1906) was the daughter of Francis IV of Modena and his niece, Maria Beatrice.  Beatrice was the offspring of an incestuous union, although her parents received a papal dispensation from the Pope in order to marry.  She spent her youth at the ducal court in Modena and was, at one time, destined to be the wife of Henri, Comte de Chambord (1820-1883), Head of the House of Bourbon.  However, she refused him and married instead Don Juan, the Carlist Claimant to the throne of Spain.  Meanwhile, her elder sister, Marie Therese, married Chambord.   Beatrice and Don Juan spent their early years in the Hapsburg realm.  They had two sons, Carlos and Alphonso, before separating.  Beatrice never divorced her husband, but they lived apart after their children were born.  Don Juan settled in England and had another ten or so children out of wedlock.  Beatrice, meanwhile developed a mania for religion and eventually entered a convent in Graz, Austria, where she died in 1906.  She's buried there.

Offline José

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Re: Carlist pretenders to the Spanish throne and their wives
« Reply #31 on: June 09, 2006, 11:12:03 AM »
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I've read that there is some debate as to who is the legal Carlist claimant, since the true male line died out in 1936. The main and more known branch is those descended from Roberto I of Parma, whose sister married Carlos, Duque de Madrid. However, another branch, the Habsburg-Lorraine (Tuscanny branch) are also claimants to the rights as legal Carlist claimants. The claim comes through the marriage of Carlos and Margherita's eldest daughter, who was the sister of Juan III. Juan died in 1931 and was single and evidently childless. He was "succeeded" by his ageing uncle, who died a few years later. Then the debate starts. The son of Margherita's brother's son, Francisco Javier (Javier I) or Carlos amd Marguerita's daughter's son Anton (his eldest brother married morganatically and then divorced). Can anyone say anythign about these pretenders, and moreover, their "queens"?



Carlos and Margarita's eldest daughter was Infanta Blanca (Blanche) 1868-1949.
She was the sister of Jaime (Jacques) I  1870-1931 (not of Juan III - 1822-87).
When Jaime I died unmarried and w/o children, the claim passed to his old (and childless) uncle Infante Alfonso-Carlos (1849-1936)

Blanca de Borbon had married Leopold Salvador of Habsburg-Tuscany.
They had a huge tribe:
1. Agnes-Maria-Theresia (1891-1945)  (I am not sure about her. I've only seen her mentioned once)
2. Maria de los Dolores (1891- 1974)
3) Maria Immakulata (1892- 1971); m.Rome 14 Jul 1932 Nobile Inigo Neri Serneri (1891-1950)
4) Margarita Raineria (1894- 1986); m.Schloß Sonnberg 27 Nov 1937 Francesco Marchese Taliani di Marchio (1887- 1968)
5) Rainer (1895- 1930)
6) Leopold, naturalized in the USA as Leopold Lorraine 1953 (1897- 1958); m.1st (morganatically) Vienna 12 Apr 1919 (div 1931) Dagmar Bss Nicolics-Podrinska (1898- 1967); m.2d (morganatically) 1932 Alice Coburn (1894- 1960)
7) Maria Antonia (1899- 1977); m.1st Barcelona 16 Jul 1924 Ramon Orlandis y Villalonga (1896- 1936); m.2d Montevideo, Uruguay 1942 Don Luis Perez Sucre (1899- 1957)
8) Anton (1901- 1987); m.Sinaia 26 Jul 1931 (div 1954) Ileana Pss of Romania (1909- 1991)
9) Assunta (1902- 1993); m.Ouchy, nr Lausanne 17 Sep 1939 [16 Mar 1939?] (div 1950) Joseph Hopfinger (1905- 1992)
10) Franz Josef (1905- 1975); m.1st (morganatically) London 22 Jul 1937 (div) Maria Aloisa Baumer (1906- 1987); m.2d (morganatically) Zürich 21 Jan 1962 Maria Elena Seunig, Cdsa de Basus (1925- 1994)
 
11) Karl Pius (1909- 1953); m.(morganatically) Vienna 10 May 1938 (div 1950) Christa Satzger de Bálványos (1914- 2001) .
 
     11a) Alejandra Blanca Gfn von Habsburg (1941); m.Barcelona  Jose Riera y de Leyva (1934)
 
            11aa) Alejandra Riera y de Habsburgo, b.Lima, Peru 1960; m.Barcelona 25 Sep 1987 Baldo Montaner Casanella (b. 1955)
 
                    11aaa) Mar Montaner Riera, b.Barcelona 1994
                    11aab) Violeta Montaner Riera
 
            11ab) Carlos Pio Riera y de Habsburgo, b.Barcelona 1963; m.Mireia Mateu
                    11aba) Laura Riera Mateu
                    11abb) Blanca Riera Mateu
                    11abc) Pedro Riera y de Habsburgo, b.Barcelona 1965; m.Aliénor Benoist 

      11b) Maria Immaculada Pia Gfn von Habsburg (b.Barcelona 1945); m. 1969 John Howard Dobkin (b. 1942)
 
       
« Last Edit: October 25, 2010, 03:18:25 PM by trentk80 »

Offline José

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Re: Carlist pretenders to the Spanish throne and their wives
« Reply #32 on: June 09, 2006, 11:29:32 AM »
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This is what Wikipedia offers for the Late Pretenders:

After Alfonso Carlos' death, dynastic seniority — after the Salic law — fell upon Alfonso XIII, former constitutional King of Spain and then in exile at Rome, therefore, at least in theory, ending the family split. But according to the theory of legitimacy in exercise, many Carlists thought that Alfonso XIII and his heir Juan de Borbón were radically disqualified to head the "Cause". They cited the doubts over Alfonso XII's paternity to dismiss him as illegitimate and his descendants as thus ineligible for the throne.

Alfonso Carlos had named in 1936 Prince Francis Xavier of Borbón-Parma as regent, as he was the nearest Bourbon who shared the Carlist ideals. During the Second World War, Prince Xavier returned to the Belgian army, where he had served during World War I. He was demobilized and joined the French maquis. He was taken prisoner by the Nazis and sent to Natzweiler and Dachau, where the American troops liberated him in 1945.

In 1952 he laid openly his claims to the Throne, which he ceded in 1975 to his eldest son Carlos-Hugo, married to Princess Irene of the Netherlands. After the definitive break with Franco (1965–1967), under the latter's direction, his group switched to a leftist Titoist, autogestionary socialist movement. His brother, Sixto of Borbon-Parma, has headed a far right split.

In 1980, Carlos-Hugo left the political arena, but did not abdicate his rights.

In 1958, a sizable group of Carlists, recognized Juan de Borbón as his Head.

From 1943 to 1953, the Archduke Carlos-Pio of Habsburg-Lorraine-Tuscany, claimed also the Head of the House.

Beside them, there were other factions, which recognized neither of the above. Some were tightly integrated in the Movimiento Nacional, some were not.

Most of this events happened under Franco's regime, which skillfully played one group against the other, and all of them against Don Juan.


Infante Alfonso Carlos has a very amiable relation with Alfonso XIII.
When he inherit his nephew's dynastic rights, he wrote to Alfonso and told him that, in order not to complicate the numbering of spanish kings, he would adopt the name of Alfonso-Carlos I.
It was a sort of compliment to Alfonso XIII since he did not want to questione that, for the Carlist branch, he would be Alfonso XII and that would hurt the king's feelings.
Besides he realised that he would be the last of his family branch and, genealogically, inevitabely his rights would pass to Alfonso XIII, since the roots of Carlism assented on the Salic Law, and he did not want to appoint any member of his family, all descendants via female line.
Alfonso XIII was touched by this action.

When he realised he was going to die, Alfonso-Carlos appointed his nephew  François Xavier of Bourbon-Parma as regent of the carlist movement and instructed him to pass his inheritance to Alfonso XIII.
Backed by some irreductible carlists who didn't agree with the succession passing to Alfonso XIII, François-Xavier delayed his task and eventually proclaimed himself as "king" on representation of the Carlist movement  :o.
That annoyed a lot Alfonso XIII and even more the count of Barcelona  >:(.

Many years laters, in Cascais at the wedding of Maria Pia de Savoy with Alexander of Youguslavia, when everything seemed forgotten, Don Juan and François-Xavier both attended the reception offered by king Umberto II.
François-Xavier approached D.Juan to salute him and asked to introduce him to his son (Carlos) Hugo.
D.Juan stared Carlos Hugo and just replied:
"So you must be the Prince of Asturias, hey ?  ::)"
The Bourbon-Parmas were frozen by such comment and kept a distance from D.Juan and his family during all the reception and at the whole wedding  ;D.
 

Offline MarieCharlotte

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Re: Carlist pretenders to the Spanish throne and their wives
« Reply #33 on: February 16, 2007, 03:05:54 AM »
I read in different books that Don Jaime, son of Don Carlos and his wife Margherita Princess of Bourbon-Parma, met Princess Mathilde, the most beautiful daughter of Prince Ludwig (later King Ludwig III.) at Munich in 1898. As they felt so much attracted to each other, there were rumours about an engagement. But Mathilde's parents and relatives were against it. So Don Jaime had to leave Mathilde and Munich. He had never married.

Does anybody have more information about Don Jaime and his relationship to Mathilde? What did his family say in this situation?

Pictures of Jaime, his parents and siblings would be great, too.

Here is some genealogical information (thanks to Paul Theroff):

Carlos Maria de los Dolores Juan Isidro Francisco Quirino Antonio Miguel Gabriel Rafael Infant of Spain, Duque de Madrid (Laibach 30 Mar 1848-Varese 18 Jul 1909); m.1st Frohsdorf 4 Feb 1867 Margherita Pss of Bourbon-Parma (Lucca 1 Jan 1847-Viareggio 29 Jan 1893); m.2d Prague 28 Apr 1894 Berthe Pss de Rohan (Teplitz 21 May 1860-Vienna 12 Jan 1945)

Children:
 
1) Blanca de Castilla Maria de la Concepción Teresa Francisca de Asis Margarita Juana Beatriz Carlota Luisa Fernanda Adelgunda Elvira Idelfonsa Regina Josefa Micaela Gabriela Rafaela Infanta of Spain (Graz 7 Sep 1868-Viareggio 25 Oct 1949); m.Frohsdorf 24 Oct 1889 Leopold Salvator, Archduke of Austria Pr of Tuscany (Alt-Bunzlau 15 Oct 1863-Vienna 4 Sep 1931)

2) Jaime Pio Juan Carlos Benvenudo Samsón Pelayo Hermenegildo Recared Alvaro Fernando Gonzalo Alfonso Maria de los Dolores Enrique Luís Roberto Francisco Ramiro José Joaquin Isidro Leandro Miguel Gabriel Rafael Pedro Benito Felipe Infant of Spain, Duque de Madrid (Vevey 27 Jun 1870-Paris 9 Oct 1931)

3) Elvira Maria Teresa Enriqueta Infanta of Spain (Le Bocage 28 Jul 1871-Paris 9 Dec 1929)

4) Maria Beatriz Teresa Carlota Infanta of Spain (Pau 21 Mar 1874-Monte San Quirico 1 Nov 1961); m.Venice 27 Feb 1897 (separated 1907) Don Fabrizio Massimo Pr di Roviano, Duca di Anticoli Corrado (Rome 23 Nov 1868-Rome 3 Oct 1944)

5) Maria Alicia Ildefonsa Margarita Infanta of Spain (Pau 29 Jun 1876-Il Colle Bargecchia 20 Jan 1975); m.1st Venice 26 Apr 1897 (div 1903) Friedrich Pr von Schönburg-Waldenburg (Gauernitz 20 Oct 1872-Schwarzenbach 27 Oct 1910); m.2d Viareggio 3 Jun 1906 Lino del Prete (Viareggio 25 Apr 1877-Bargecchia 11 Feb 1956)

« Last Edit: February 16, 2007, 03:08:49 AM by MarieCharlotte »
Ich aber breite trauernd aus
die weiten weissen Schwingen,
Und kehr' ins Feenreich nach Haus -
Nichts soll mich wieder bringen.


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Offline MarieCharlotte

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Re: Carlist pretenders to the Spanish throne and their wives
« Reply #34 on: February 16, 2007, 12:05:22 PM »
Thanks Linnea.  ;)

Are there any pictures of Jaime's sisters Elvira, Beatriz and Maria Alicia?
Ich aber breite trauernd aus
die weiten weissen Schwingen,
Und kehr' ins Feenreich nach Haus -
Nichts soll mich wieder bringen.


Elisabeth

Offline Yseult

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Re: Carlist pretenders to the Spanish throne and their wives
« Reply #35 on: February 16, 2007, 05:47:44 PM »
I still haven´t found these portraits   >:(

If I´m not wrong, "Carlos VII" was not a good husband to Margarita of Parma, and the relationship was from bad to worse when they fled to exile with their children. When Margarita -a tender creature, named "angel of charity" for her husband´s partisans- was diying, Carlos was involved with an viennese actress. And one year after the death of Margarita, Carlos married Bertha of Rohan.

Jaime and his sisters Blanca, Elvira, Beatriz and Maria Alicia were frankly devoted to their mother. They weren´t in good terms with Bertha. A few years later, Bertha tried to convince somebody in the carlist´s circle that Jaime could not marry Mathilde "because the bavarian princess had such a bad reputation". At the same time, the spanish queen mother Maria Christina tried to persuade somebody in the viennese court to forbid the engagedment between Mathilde and the young pretender. The two woman were succesful.

About the girls...Elvira was very young when she fell in love with Carlo Folchi, a painter and a married man. The princess run away with the painter, they lived together and they had three children. Carlos VII stated that her daughter was "dead" when she was alive, he never wanted to see her again or to meet the boys.

Offline Eurohistory

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Re: Carlist pretenders to the Spanish throne and their wives
« Reply #36 on: February 17, 2007, 11:48:50 AM »
The saga of the poor Carlists...and then Jaime's uncle dying hit by a bus...just awful!

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« Last Edit: February 17, 2007, 11:54:16 AM by Eurohistory »
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Offline MarieCharlotte

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Re: Carlist pretenders to the Spanish throne and their wives
« Reply #37 on: February 17, 2007, 05:01:09 PM »
He was hit by a bus?  :-\

Thanks, Sveta, for all these wonderful and rare pictures. Did you collect them from different sources or are they taken from a book?  I especially like the pic of Blanca as a child, because I've never seen one before.
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Nichts soll mich wieder bringen.


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Offline Svetabel

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Re: Carlist pretenders to the Spanish throne and their wives
« Reply #38 on: February 18, 2007, 04:08:48 AM »


Thanks, Sveta, for all these wonderful and rare pictures. Did you collect them from different sources or are they taken from a book?  I especially like the pic of Blanca as a child, because I've never seen one before.

The pictures are from different sources, some of them are from e-bay auctions. That of Don Carlos and Blanca I found on a Spanish site  :-\ , and don't remember what site it was.

Offline José

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Re: Carlist pretenders to the Spanish throne and their wives
« Reply #39 on: February 22, 2007, 01:19:36 PM »
Good morning, MarieCharlotte! I´m glad to share the info I have found ;)

It seems that he was really in love with Mathilde of Bavaria, but the austrian court was opposite to the engagedment. Spanish queen mother Maria Cristina, born archduchess of Austria, was against a marriage between the carlist pretender and the bavarian duchess. I read somewhere that also was against these marriage -but I don´t know the reason...- the step-mother of Jaime, Bertha of Rohan (second wife of Carlos duke of Madrid or Carlos VII "king of Spain").

Best regards, Marie!

Marie-Christinne might have had an ally in her sister-in-law Infanta Paz who was married to Pr.Ludwig-Ferdinand of Bavaria, from a younger branch.
As an Infanta of Spain, Paz might not have wanted to favour an union between the Wittelsbachs and the Carlist Bourbons.

Offline José

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Re: Carlist pretenders to the Spanish throne and their wives
« Reply #40 on: February 24, 2007, 11:42:11 AM »
And Mathilde's mother, Marie Therese of Modena was the half-sister of Marie Christinne Q. of Spain.

Really, there was no hope for D.Jaime and her beloved :-\

Offline grandduchessella

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Re: Carlist pretenders to the Spanish throne and their wives
« Reply #41 on: March 10, 2007, 08:19:27 PM »
I came across this:

DON JAIME, DUKE OF MADRID, ASKS PERMIT TO WED NIECE
The Washington Post Date: May 12, 1919
 
Marriages of uncles with their nieces are so rare, especially among the royal families of Europe, that the appeal of Don Jaime, Duke of Madrid and head of the Carlist party in Spain, to the papacy for an ecclesiastical dispensation permitting him to contract a matrimonial alliance with the 19-year-old Princess Babiola Massimo, second daughter of his sister Beatrice and of the latter's husband, Prince Fabrizio Massimo, has naturally attracted a considerable amount of attention.

Of course, the marriage never happened though.
 
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Offline umigon

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Re: Carlist pretenders to the Spanish throne and their wives
« Reply #42 on: March 11, 2007, 08:25:07 AM »

Don Jaime was in fact quite infatuated by Fabiola, who did correspond to her uncle's feelings. I don't the final reason that ended with the marriage.
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Offline frohsdorf

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Re: Carlist pretenders to the Spanish throne and their wives
« Reply #43 on: June 17, 2007, 09:09:27 AM »
   The marriage between Don Jaime de Bourbon and his niece, Princesse Fabiola Massimo, was opposed by Princesse Beatrice de Bourbon-Massimo----Jaime's sister and Fabiola's mother---because of the close blood relation of the two.   Beatrice was extremely uneasy about the match and opposed it, according to her youngest daughter, Comtesse Blanca de Wurmbrand-Stuppach (nee Princesse Blanca de Massimo).

    This was a wise decision, obviously.  That branch of the Bourbons had one of the most "concentrated" bloodlines in Europe by that time.  Don Jaime was also closely related to Princesse Mathilde of Bavaria.  His grandmother (Princess Marie Beatrice of Modena) and her grandfather (Prince Ferdinand of Modena) were brother and sister.  The Marie Beatrice and Ferdinand were the result of a marriage between uncle and niece (Duke Francis IV of Modena married his niece).

    Back to Don Jaime----

    He was the heir of the Comtesse de Chambord and and spent much of his time at the Chateau de Frohsdorf in Lower Austria from 1909 until his death in 1931.  His sister, Princesse Beatrice de Bourbon-Massimo, inherited Frohsdorf and all of its contents.  Many things were sold at auction during the 1930s.  Unfortunately, during WWII, the Germans and then the occupying Soviets destroyed or burned the rest.

Offline Svetabel

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Re: Carlist pretenders to the Spanish throne and their wives
« Reply #44 on: October 03, 2007, 01:56:00 PM »