Author Topic: Purported bastards of Henry VIII  (Read 13075 times)

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Offline umigon

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Purported bastards of Henry VIII
« on: August 23, 2005, 04:28:19 PM »

There were some people who were thought to be King Henry VIII's illegitimate children:


1. Henry Carey (1526-1596), officially a son of William Carey and Mary Boleyn.



2. Thomas Stukely (1525-1578), officially a son of Mary Berkeley by her husband Thomas Perrot (?); why changing the last name then? (sorry no portrait)


3. John Perrot (1528-1592), officially a son of Mary Berkeley by her husband Thomas Perrot.




4. Ethelreda Malte (about 1529-after 1555), a supposed daughter of Henry VIII and a royal laundress called Joan Dyngley. (sorry no portrait)


What do you think? Were they really Henry's children? I know we already discussed Henry Carey and his sister, but I thought I should include at least one of them!
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Offline umigon

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Re: Purported bastards of Henry VIII
« Reply #1 on: August 23, 2005, 05:02:04 PM »
This is some of the info I could collect about the last three supposed bastards of Henry VIII:


Thomas Stukely

English adventurer. He was rumored to be an illegitimate son of Henry VIII. He was in the service of Edward Seymour, Duke of Somerset, and fled to France after Somerset's fall (1549). There he gained the favor of Henri II of France, who sent him (1552) on a mission to England. Stucley betrayed the projected French invasion of Calais but was imprisoned. Released in 1553, he joined the army of Emmanuel Philibert, Duke of Savoy, in Flanders and took part in the battle of Saint-Quentin (1557). In 1563 Stucley organized a privateering expedition with Jean Ribaut under the cover of helping to colonize Florida and with surreptitious aid from Queen Elizabeth I. The resulting complaints of foreign nations caused Elizabeth to arrest him in 1565, but he was immediately pardoned. Stucley then went to serve in Ireland and in 1566 purchased the title of marshal of Ireland. Elizabeth, who distrusted him, refused to recognize this title, and in 1569 he was accused of treason. Stucley fled (1570) to Spain, where he was received at court, knighted, and recognized as Duke of Ireland. He planned a Spanish invasion of Ireland but fell from favor at Madrid. His conduct at the battle of Lepanto (1571), where he commanded three ships, brought Stucley back into favor with the Spanish, and he continued plotting against England. In 1577 he received aid from Pope Gregory XIII for an invasion of Ireland. He set sail but at Lisbon was persuaded to join the Portuguese expedition of King Sebastian against Morocco and was killed at the battle of Ksar el Kebir. His adventures have been the subject of ballads and plays.
(from http://www.tudorplace.com.ar/Bios/ThomasStukely.htm)

Sir John Perrot

John Perrot was born in November 1528, introduced to the Court in the autumn of 1549 and knighted within a week of achieving his majority in November of that year. He was a staunch Protestant during the reign of Queen Mary (1553-58), eventually deciding that it was wiser to leave the country and join a military expedition in France. Despite this, and after five years of lobbying, Mary granted Perrot the castle and lordship of Carew.

With Mary's death, Perrot's fortunes changed. He was favoured by Queen Elizabeth (1558-1603) and divided his time during the 1560s between the Court and Pembrokeshire, where he consolidated his power base. A man of somewhat fiery temperament, he had no difficulty in acquiring enemies both at Court and in south-west Wales. In 1571 the queen appointed Perrot as the first lord of Munster. He returned in 1573, worn out from his experience but after what appears to have been two relatively successful years in Ireland. He then largely withdrew from public life spending much of the next ten years developing his estates in Pembrokeshire. In 1584 the queen appointed Perrot Lord Deputy of Ireland.
Perrot's time in Ireland as Lord Deputy, like that of those who had gone before and were to succeed him, was not an easy one. It is a measure of his ability that he was able to return in 1588 with his reputation, if not his health, intact. However, his absence had provided an opportunity for his enemies, both in Court and elsewhere, to conspire against him. In March 1591 he was imprisoned on the Tower. Found guilty on a charge of high treason, he was condemned to death on 27 April 1592. He died of ill health (although there is a suggestion that he may have been poisoned) on 3 November that teat before sentence could be carried out. There is some evidence that the queen may have been on the point of pardoning him.

(from http://www.castlewales.com/perrot.html)


Ethelreda Malte

[Henry's tailor, John Malte, was persuaded to recognise Ethelreda as his illegitimate daughter, born in the late 1520's. Her mother, Joan Dyngley, a royal laundress, was married off to a man named Dobson. Ethelreda (or Audrey) took the surname Malte and married John Harrington in 1547. Henry granted lands to Ethelreda. She was still living in 1555, but died before 1559 as her husband remarried in that year. He inherited all the lands Henry VIII had granted her  (from http://www.tudorplace.com.ar/TUDOR.htm#Ethelreda%20(Audrey)%20TUDOR)
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Offline Prince_Lieven

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Re: Purported bastards of Henry VIII
« Reply #2 on: August 23, 2005, 05:30:16 PM »
Well, the Henry and Catherine Carey situation has been thoroughly discussed in the 'Mary Boleyn's Children' thread. as to the others . . . hmm . . . well, Henry had many mistresses during his lifetime, so he surely must have produced some bastards.
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Offline umigon

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Re: Purported bastards of Henry VIII
« Reply #3 on: August 23, 2005, 05:39:51 PM »
Of course, Prince, but I mean it is quite rare that the Carey's mistery and Fitzroy figure have been so widely discussed and, on the contrary, we have much less information on these other three people, specially on Ethelreda, who was somewhat recognised by Henry, as he granted her lands!

She probably died childless, as her husband inherited her lands!
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Offline Prince_Lieven

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Re: Purported bastards of Henry VIII
« Reply #4 on: August 23, 2005, 05:55:08 PM »
This is all very interesting . . . I always thought Fitzroy was the only bastard Henry ever acknowleged. Ethelreda . . .? It's a Saxon name . . . I wonder if Henry named her?
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Offline umigon

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Re: Purported bastards of Henry VIII
« Reply #5 on: August 24, 2005, 04:34:50 AM »


Yes, I was also quite surprised when I saw her name. And it said Ethelreda (Audrey) Tudor...

Lets see what the others tell us!
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Offline imperial angel

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Re: Purported bastards of Henry VIII
« Reply #6 on: March 22, 2006, 11:50:43 AM »
The name of that supposed illegitimate daughter is interesting.. I would wonder where it came from. I am sure he had some bastards, and these might have been some of them. Anyway, the name of his purported ilegitimate daughter was fairly uncommon, even in the lower classes-am I correct?

Offline bell_the_cat

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Re: Purported bastards of Henry VIII
« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2006, 01:34:48 AM »
Quote
The name of that supposed illegitimate daughter is interesting.. I would wonder where it came from. I am sure he had some bastards, and these might have been some of them. Anyway, the name of his purported ilegitimate daughter was fairly uncommon, even in the lower classes-am I correct?


Hi Imperial Angel - I agree with all your posts!

St Ethelreda (or Etheldreda) was a Queen of the Saxon King of Northumbria in the seventh century. Her shrine is at Ely. I think it was a popular pilgrimage destination until the 1530s.

The name does suggest a royal connection, but maybe also a connection with Cambridgeshire. St Etheldreda is also the patroness of Cambridge University and the name still exists among older women in Germany as Edeltraut.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by bell_the_cat »
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Offline imperial angel

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Re: Purported bastards of Henry VIII
« Reply #8 on: March 23, 2006, 09:44:26 AM »
Thanks for the background on that name. :)

Offline Tsarina_Liz

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Re: Purported bastards of Henry VIII
« Reply #9 on: March 26, 2006, 01:44:04 PM »
Quote
Quote from: imperial angel  link=1124828900/0#6 date=1143049843
The name of that supposed illegitimate daughter is interesting.. I would wonder where it came from. I am sure he had some bastards, and these might have been some of them. Anyway, the name of his purported ilegitimate daughter was fairly uncommon, even in the lower classes-am I correct?

Hi Imperial Angel - I agree with all your posts!

St Ethelreda (or Etheldreda) was a Queen of the Saxon King of Northumbria in the seventh century. Her shrine is at Ely. I think it was a popular pilgrimage destination until the 1530s.

The name does suggest a royal connection, but maybe also a connection with Cambridgeshire. St Etheldreda is also the patroness of Cambridge University and the name still exists among older women in Germany as Edeltraut.

Any idea how common the name was in Tudor times?
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Offline imperial angel

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Re: Purported bastards of Henry VIII
« Reply #10 on: March 26, 2006, 09:18:14 PM »
I am curious about that as well, as it seems sort of a middle ages name, perhaps not one current in Tudor times.

Offline Lady_Aurora

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Re: Purported bastards of Henry VIII
« Reply #11 on: April 28, 2006, 02:08:37 PM »
I was looking for pictures of the other two on the list and only found this for Stucley:

http://froogle.google.com/froogle_cluster?q=IZON%2C+JOHN.+(SIR+THOMAS+STUCLEY.)+Sir+Thomas+Stucley+C.+1525+-+1578.+Traitor+Extraordinary.&pid=4890859897702520389&oid=4377842677399122026&btnG=Search+Froogle&scoring=mrd&hl=en

It's actually a book...but yeah. Sorry I'm at school right now and there are so many dumb restrictions on these computers that I can't really do much with the images and such.

otherwise that's all I have found so far.



It's actually a book...but yeah. Sorry I'm at school right now and there are so many dumb restrictions on these computers that I can't really do much with the images and such.

otherwise that's all I have found so far.

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Lady_Aurora »

Offline Lady_Aurora

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Re: Purported bastards of Henry VIII
« Reply #12 on: April 28, 2006, 02:18:08 PM »
here's some "worthless piece of information" (as my european history teacher would say):

ETHELDREDA is the latinized form of:

ELRY  
Gender: Feminine

Usage: Anglo-Saxon
 
Derived from the Old English elements el "noble" and ry "strength".
www.behindthename.com