Author Topic: What are Maria Vladimirovna and her son doing?  (Read 58571 times)

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Offline bookworm8571

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What are Maria Vladimirovna and her son doing?
« on: June 30, 2004, 02:20:45 PM »
I've read 10-year-old interviews with Cyril's granddaughter and she always sounds quite serious about her role as supposed "heir" to the throne. Her son George would be 22 or 23, right? What has he been doing these past years? Where does he work? How has he been educated? Is Maria hunting around for some German "princess" to marry him off to so he can make an "equal" marriage? I can't imagine many people taking the succession to the throne seriously in this day and age. Has anyone read an interview with George?

And do Maria and her mother have any Spanish blood? They're both so dark they look far more Latin than Russian.

Offline Antonio_P.Caballer

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Re: What are Maria Vladimirovna and her son doing?
« Reply #1 on: June 30, 2004, 07:06:23 PM »
Maria has no spanish blood. She said once that she considered herself a Russian ( she never lived in that country though). It´s true that she seems quite latin. I think it´s due to her mother, Princess Leonida Bagration-Mukhransky´s family. The Bagration- Mukhranskys were, if i remember well, princes from Georgia. Georgians are quite similar in appearance to latins, usually short, black haired and so on...

Offline Olga

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Re: What are Maria Vladimirovna and her son doing?
« Reply #2 on: July 01, 2004, 04:48:13 AM »
Georgi Mihkailovich is 23. Has anybody taken their claim to the throne seriously?

Offline Nick_Nicholson

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Re: What are Maria Vladimirovna and her son doing?
« Reply #3 on: July 01, 2004, 08:40:30 AM »
A great many people take their claim very seriously indeed.  Maria Vladimirovna is recognized by the Patriarch as the "Head of the Former Imperial Family" and both Yeltsin and Putin have recieved and acknowledged her.

There are several reasons that people object to her claim;

1. The fact that her great-Grandmother Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna the Elder was a Lutheran at the time of her son Kirill's birth. The heir to the throne must, by law, be born of an Orthodox mother.  Maria Pavlovna converted to Othodoxy late, just so that her son would be eligible to take the Throne. It has been written that Nicholas and the Dowager Empress were clear that Kirill was not eligible for the throne.  After the assassination, the Dowager Empress refused to recognize Kirill's claim for this reason.

2. That Kirill married his first cousin, Victoria Melita, an act prohibited by the Orthodox Church. This is moot, because as Head of the Church, Nicholas II recognized this marriage, so it should be ignored.

3. That Maria's father Grand Duke Vladimir contracted a marriage of unequal birth with Princess Leonida Bagration-Moukhranskaya, a member of the formal Royal family of Georgia.  Before the revolution, a marriage contracted with a Bagration would have been considered morganatic because of the absorbtion of Georgia into the Russian Empire.  After the revolution, however, the Royal Family of Georgia has the same status as any deposed royal family: France, Russia, etc.
Also, if you believe that GD Vladimir was heir to "all Imperial Rights and Privileges" than if he says that a Bagration is of Royal status, than a Bagration IS of Royal status.

4. That Georgii Mikhailovitch is a Hohenzollern, and not a Romanov.  Georgii's father, a Royal Prince of the House of Prussia, converted to Russian Orthodoxy and took the name of Mikhail.  He was accepted into the House of Romanov, and signed papers renouncing his and his son's rights to Hohenzollern names, titles, and privileges.  You have to ignore that one too.

That's the basic rundown.  What it really comes down to is that if you adhere strictly to the rules as they existed before the revolution, there is not one living Romanov descendant who has a faultless claim to the throne.  The oldest living Male in the senior branch of the family is Prince Nicholas Romanov, who only has daughters.  In terms of the most royal blood, it is without doubt Maria Vladimirovna, who is related to the British Royal family, the House of Mecklenburg-Schwerin, the Royal House of Georgia, and the Russian Imperial House.

So, in summation, its really up for grabs.  If you really want someone on the throne of Russia, my money's on Maria-she's the only member of the family who wants it, and she has worked very hard indeed to establish herself as "Curatrix of the Throne."  You have to admire her sense of duty, if not her extreme laquered hairdo.

Best,

Nick
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Offline kensue

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Re: What are Maria Vladimirovna and her son doing?
« Reply #4 on: July 01, 2004, 11:14:09 AM »
I'm quoting from the book 'The Flight of the Romanovs'.

"Maria Vladimirovna keeps today the title of Head of the Imperial House, although her octotgenarian mother Leonida seems more interested in politics than she.  For forty-four years, Leonida  worked hand in hand with her husband.  with Vladimir's death, she is the mastermind and major engine of the Romanov restoration movement and, during 1991-1995, made twenty-six trips to Russia to push her cause."

"In the eyes of the pro-Vladimirovichi, he (George) will sooner or later become head of the House of Romanov.  After the collapse of the Soviet Union, George was slated to enter the Admiral Naklhimov Naval Cadet School in St. Petersburg. But the russian military have told Leonida that the morale in all Russian cadet schools is now very low."  They thought it would be better to go to military school in Spain and try Russia later.  I think that Maria Vladimirovna and her son have been living in Paris for many years.

Offline Belochka

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Re: What are Maria Vladimirovna and her son doing?
« Reply #5 on: July 02, 2004, 12:43:57 AM »
Quote
my money's on Maria-she's the only member of the family who wants it, and she has worked very hard indeed to establish herself as "Curatrix of the Throne."  You have to admire her sense of duty, if not her extreme laquered hairdo.


Maria can place herself in the public eye as much as she likes, even with a new coiffure. What should be considered is whether Russia will ever vote in favor of returning to an autocratic State. After tasting democracy for over a decade I doubt that the people would ever choose this form of government for themselves.

As to which faction is the one which should step forward and try and make a claim for Russia? IMHO it really is all fanciful speculation and essentially has become all rather academic today.
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Offline nerdycool

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Re: What are Maria Vladimirovna and her son doing?
« Reply #6 on: July 02, 2004, 01:42:52 AM »
Quote
What should be considered is whether Russia will ever vote in favor of returning to an autocratic State. After tasting democracy for over a decade I doubt that the people would ever choose this form of government for themselves.

I think it's possible that Russian citizens could vote for the return of an autocratic state. There is still a lot of Soviet sentiment in Russia just because that's all people knew for 70+ years and obviously the new Russia is still struggling. If one looks at just the basics of what Communism was in the Soviet Union and compare it to the monarchy, they are very similar. Heck, they could all vote to re-instate the Soviet Union! But anyway, I'm a firm believer that if Russia wanted the monarchy back, it wouldn't be an autocracy, nor should it be. A democratic form would be more appropriate, and if done right, more effective. But Russia is slowly making good strides in their government now... still have a long way to go, but they're on their way. Whatever they do, I'm sure they'll work it out sooner or later.

Offline nerdycool

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Re: What are Maria Vladimirovna and her son doing?
« Reply #7 on: July 02, 2004, 01:50:42 AM »
While replying, I totally forgot to ask my question. If Georgii's father renounced all titles, names, rights, and privileges of the House of Hohenzollern for himself and Georgii, then why does he go by Grand Duke Georgii Mikhailovitch Hohenzollern-Romanov? If he's not to use it, then shouldn't the Hohenzollern be dropped from his name?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by nerdycool »

Offline Olga

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Re: What are Maria Vladimirovna and her son doing?
« Reply #8 on: July 14, 2004, 04:08:24 AM »
Having more names makes one sound more important.

Do Maria Vladimirovna and Georgi Mikhailovich speak Russian/do other Russian type things?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by olga »

Offline Charles

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Re: What are Maria Vladimirovna and her son doing?
« Reply #9 on: July 14, 2004, 09:14:11 AM »
Actually Maria Vladimirovna speaks very good Russian (with little or no accent).  Her mother speaks excellent as well.  Vladimir Kirillovich spoke Russian with a thick French accent.  Not sure about Georgii Mikhailovich.

What other "Russian type things" do you mean?

Offline Annie

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Re: What are Maria Vladimirovna and her son doing?
« Reply #10 on: July 14, 2004, 12:39:45 PM »
Quote
2. That Kirill married his first cousin, Victoria Melita, an act prohibited by the Orthodox Church. This is moot, because as Head of the Church, Nicholas II recognized this marriage, so it should be ignored.


But Victoria Melita ("Ducky") was also a divorcee', having left Alexandra's brother, Ernie. Is that not a no-no too?

Offline LisaDavidson

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Re: What are Maria Vladimirovna and her son doing?
« Reply #11 on: July 15, 2004, 12:20:47 AM »
Quote

But Victoria Melita ("Ducky") was also a divorcee', having left Alexandra's brother, Ernie. Is that not a no-no too?


There are no-nos and then there are no-nos. Certainly being a divorcee made Ducky less socially acceptable, but that's as far as it went in Romanov Russia. Orthodoxy did not exclude divorcees. Being divorced made no difference as to whether Ducky's children had succession rights or not.

The only argument against Victoria Melita that had any weight was the lack of the Tsar's approval for her marriage to Kiril. Once this approval was granted - and it was - she was fully accepted into the dynasty and her children had succession rights.

Offline Annie

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Re: What are Maria Vladimirovna and her son doing?
« Reply #12 on: July 15, 2004, 09:01:08 AM »
But going by the old laws, the line should have been excluded with Maria, since she is a woman. If this is not the case, and women are included, then go back and get Xenia, Tsar's sister, married to a Grand Duke, with 6 sons. In the British line of succession she would have been next anyway, after her brothers and their children were gone. There are a lot of people closer and more valid than any of Kyril's line!

Offline Robert_Hall

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Re: What are Maria Vladimirovna and her son doing?
« Reply #13 on: July 17, 2004, 04:07:45 AM »
I have been trying to find proper pictures of MV & her family for my collection. Not magazine tear-outs, but pictures for my albums. Any sources, or ideas?
Cheers,
Robert
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Offline LisaDavidson

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Re: What are Maria Vladimirovna and her son doing?
« Reply #14 on: July 18, 2004, 04:07:17 PM »
Annie: women were not excluded from the succession. The difficulty comes from which female would succeed once the male agnates became extinct, as they arguably did in 1989 with the death of Prince Vasili.