Author Topic: Re: Grand Duchess Olga N. as Princess of Wales  (Read 10562 times)

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Offline LisaDavidson

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Re: Grand Duchess Olga N. as Princess of Wales
« Reply #15 on: September 05, 2005, 06:01:13 PM »
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Heterodox is the correct term - it doesn't mean heretic or infidel. I've never known it to be derogatory. It simply refers to Christians who are not Orthodox. An infidel is someone who is not Islamic AFAIK.


While heterodox is technically correct to describe a non-Orthodox Christian, it is not a term with positive connotations. I believe that non-Orthodox is a much less loaded term.

Marriage to the heir of a throne nearly always requires that the person marrying in converts to the heir's religion. So, if one of the girls had married the Prince of Wales, they would have been required to convert to the COE. Whether or not Nicholas would have permitted this or not is something we won't be able to know.

Offline Dennis

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Re: Grand Duchess Olga N. as Princess of Wales
« Reply #16 on: September 05, 2005, 07:36:03 PM »
It's a very interesting question.  

You are probably correct about the need of a Consort to share her husband's religion in all cases.

N & A would have wanted a love match for their daughters.  That would be a big factor in any final religious decision.

Even though N & A were devoutly Orthodox, they had many close relatives and friends who were not.  Perhaps that would have smoothed the way if O or T had really wanted to marry the POW.
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Offline Marlene

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Re: Grand Duchess Olga N. as Princess of Wales
« Reply #17 on: October 19, 2005, 08:42:00 AM »
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Also, would she as (a hypothetical) Princess of Wales and Queen of England been able to remain Orthodox or would she have to become Anglican? I can't see that either Olga or Tatiana would have wanted to change religion.



Olga could have remained Orthodox, but the children would have been raised Anglican.  Grand Duchess Marie remained Orthodox.
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Re: Grand Duchess Olga N. as Princess of Wales
« Reply #18 on: October 20, 2005, 10:34:21 AM »
The only religious bar to becoming the Princess of Wales, is being a Roman Catholic (stemming back to the great fear of our having another Catholic monarch) or, presumably any other denomination which insists that the children be raised in that denomination rather than in Anglicanism. Had Olga been Princess of Wales, she would have had to agree to raise her children in the C. of E.

(I am sure many people share the view that is high time this law should be repealed...Perhaps Prince Charles will press for a change in the law since he wishes to be the 'Defender of All Faiths.')

Offline Georgiy

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Re: Grand Duchess Olga N. as Princess of Wales
« Reply #19 on: October 20, 2005, 02:55:32 PM »
Yes, I agree. Actually although an Orthodox may marry a non-Orthodox, it is on the stipulation that any children must be raised Orthodox. (I guess that's the same as any children to the heir of the British throne must be raised Anglican.) Ultimately, I think it would be difficult for any strongly believing person in (say Orthodoxy or Anglicanism or Catholicism) to marry someone of a different Faith. If their religion is lukewram, it's probably not so bad.

Offline Marlene

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Re: Grand Duchess Olga N. as Princess of Wales
« Reply #20 on: October 20, 2005, 08:16:01 PM »
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Yes, I agree. Actually although an Orthodox may marry a non-Orthodox, it is on the stipulation that any children must be raised Orthodox. (I guess that's the same as any children to the heir of the British throne must be raised Anglican.) Ultimately, I think it would be difficult for any strongly believing person in (say Orthodoxy or Anglicanism or Catholicism) to marry someone of a different Faith. If their religion is lukewram, it's probably not so bad.



Grand Duchess Maria Alexandrovna retained her faith.  her children were baptised as Anglicans and confirmed in the Lutheran church.   Prince George of Greece married Marie Bonaparte, a Catholic by baptism, but actually an atheist (their children were Orthodox);  Waldemar of Denmark and Marie of Orleans raised their sons Lutheran and their only daughter was Catholic.
Giovanna of Italy was a devout Catholic but she agreed that her children would be Orthodox.
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Offline Josť

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Re: Grand Duchess Olga N. as Princess of Wales
« Reply #21 on: January 15, 2006, 02:56:56 PM »
So far I have only heard that Carol of Roumania had proposed to Olga and ignored the possible match Eddy-Olga.

Were there any other candidates to the G.Duchesses ?

If Olga made clear she would not leave Russia, would she marry one of her G.Duke cousins or any russian prince ?

Offline LisaDavidson

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Re: Grand Duchess Olga N. as Princess of Wales
« Reply #22 on: January 15, 2006, 06:30:36 PM »
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So far I have only heard that Carol of Roumania had proposed to Olga and ignored the possible match Eddy-Olga.

Were there any other candidates to the G.Duchesses ?

If Olga made clear she would not leave Russia, would she marry one of her G.Duke cousins or any russian prince ?


Carol of Romania did not propose to Olga. There was a meeting of the families during which Carol and Olga were able to spend more time together. Both agreed they would not suit and the 2 mothers were not inclined to promote the match after this.

As to David, The Prince of Wales, I think this was only a weak possibility. (I presume this is who you meant by Eddy). In the UK, the Tsar was less than popular. Also, Alix would have been underwhelmed by David's affairs with married women, which means the Russians would also have not been in favor of the match.

I don't take seriously Olga's comment about not leaving Russia. I'm sure she meant it at the time, but I think it possible that had she wanted to marry suitably - perhaps to Alexaner of Yugoslavia - this would have gone out the window.

Of course there were other candidates for the Grand Duchesses to marry! And, there are many topics where this is dicussed.

Offline grandduchessella

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Re: Grand Duchess Olga N. as Princess of Wales
« Reply #23 on: January 15, 2006, 07:38:17 PM »
I've never heard of any family discussions regarding a David-Olga match but it didn't stop speculation. The engagement was reported as practically a done deal in US and UK papers. I think it was just an attractive possibility that appealed.
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Offline Grace

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Re: Grand Duchess Olga N. as Princess of Wales
« Reply #24 on: January 15, 2006, 11:55:40 PM »
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I believe that she would have been miserable married to David. It would have been a forced or arranged marriage between them since David showed no real interest in the subject until Mrs. Simpson. David probably would have ignored her and continued on with his partying and affairs. As for the Imperial Family, had Olga been married to David, George V would have been under much more pressure to take them in being his daughter in law's family. If he didn't, what kind of message would that send? I believe that if he and Olga were that closely connected, he would have had no real choice but to take them. I don't think he would have been pleased by the idea (more like worried and anxious), but he would have had no real alternative in the matter.


Actually, David had discussed the subject of marriage to Portia Cadogan with his mother, Queen Mary, in approximately 1917 and had apparently brought up the subject with his parents regarding another woman, too, whose name escapes me presently.  I think the fact that he spoke to his parents about these women indicates that his feelings were serious.  Both women were ruled out as being unsuitable as future queen consorts.  

I agree, though, that any union between Olga and David would be a mismatch to say the least.

We know that Nicholas and Alexandra would not have forced any of their children into a loveless marriage and Queen Mary had made it clear that no-one was going to force David into an early marriage, much less one to some-one he did not love, so no way.

I'm amazed this thread has gone on for two pages - it just wouldn't have happened.

Offline LisaDavidson

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Re: Grand Duchess Olga N. as Princess of Wales
« Reply #25 on: January 16, 2006, 12:17:14 AM »
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I've never heard of any family discussions regarding a David-Olga match but it didn't stop speculation. The engagement was reported as practically a done deal in US and UK papers. I think it was just an attractive possibility that appealed.


There is an ancient edition of Vanity Fair - c. 1912 - that shows Olga and Tatiana - with photos - as potential brides for the POW. I saw it when doing research in a university library. I regarded it then as now - it was mere speculation.

Offline imperial angel

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Re: Grand Duchess Olga N. as Princess of Wales
« Reply #26 on: January 16, 2006, 11:11:11 AM »
Well, it is not so different from magazines of today showing royalty, and who they could marry. Just because it is true that they were eligible, does not mean anyone thought of it seriously. As for today, I have read magazines that play these same sorts of guessing games, and it seems there might be magazines that might do this into eternity...the more things change, the more they stay the same-Alphonse Karr,/and or/ french saying.

Offline grandduchessella

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Re: Grand Duchess Olga N. as Princess of Wales
« Reply #27 on: January 16, 2006, 04:54:57 PM »
I have a magazine that states the same thing. I'm not surprised though--those girls would've been at the tops of most lists for potential brides.

I just love the ones though that go beyond speculation and state the engagements as having taken place.
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Re: Grand Duchess Olga N. as Princess of Wales
« Reply #28 on: January 16, 2006, 06:45:31 PM »
Since Alix refused to marry Eddy (Albert Victor) and didn't have to change her faith to do that, I don't imagine she would have forced her daughters into a similar match.

Same position different future king.

However, David (Edward VIII) was quite attractive and a very good match for any woman.  

Quite off topic - I always thought that he would have moved on from Wallis as he did from the prior married women if she had not set up the boundries that she did.

The other women were not inclined to divorce.  Wallis had already done so and so could easily do it again.

Of course the pressure on George V would have been greater if one of the Grand Duchesses was his daughter in law, and maybe both branches of the family would have been closer because of more family visits.

I think he would have had to think longer and harded than he already had to if he had a Grand Duchess at his elbow and his son worried about his in laws.

But, since he thought more about his throne and the country's aversion to autocracy, wouldn't that have been a deterent to a Russian match in the first place?

Would the citizens and Parliament have tolerated a member of the Russian royal family married to an heir?

Remember Marie Alexandrovna did not marry a direct heir.  And Victoria was queen when that took place.  Did any of it begin while Edward VII was on the throne?

Royal match making sometimes began when the children were quite young.

Offline grandduchessella

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Re: Grand Duchess Olga N. as Princess of Wales
« Reply #29 on: January 16, 2006, 10:22:53 PM »
I'm sure it would've been a much more difficult situation (the refuge question) if Olga or Tatiana had been the Princess of Wales.

You're right in wondering though how popular such a match might've been. Such a different situation the girl's would've found themselves in from what they were used to Russia. As sheltered as they had been, would that have taken to the constant public displays that were inherent in England? Or would the charm and easygoing private side have been able to come forth more? One will never know.

Another potential match had once been that of Victoria Louise, the Kaiser's daughter, with one of GV's sons. Imagine that during WW1.  :-/

I wonder if Alix and MF ever discussed it at all.
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