Author Topic: Ella and her foster children Marie Pavlovna and Dmitri  (Read 148897 times)

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Offline Duchess Hydrangea

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Re: Ella and her foster children Marie Pavlovna and Dmitri
« Reply #420 on: November 15, 2012, 08:29:50 AM »
GD Ella was very religious. Did her religiousness have any influence on GD Maria and GD Dmitri??? Were they religious at all?

The only thing I can recall off the top of my head is that Dmitri for years refused to take Communion because of guilt over the Rasputin murder. But this might have been a simple conscious that murder is wrong rather than something to do with Ella's upbringing. Honestly I've never come across much religious information about either of them, especially when compared to OTMA, KR's children and their (MP and DP's) half brother Vladimir Paley. Then again when compared to how much I've read about the others mentioned I haven't read much about Marie P at all.

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Offline Kalafrana

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Re: Ella and her foster children Marie Pavlovna and Dmitri
« Reply #421 on: November 15, 2012, 08:47:42 AM »
Perdita

At risk of going off topic once again, Dostoevsky is on your list of people who admired Serge. How had he come to know him?

Ann


Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Ella and her foster children Marie Pavlovna and Dmitri
« Reply #422 on: November 15, 2012, 09:12:30 AM »
No. Marie P thought about nobody but herself. She divorced her husband and left her child for another man. Not very moral or religious to say the least. Dimitri was promoscious and had a lot of love affairs and refuse to settle down with a wife and children until years later. One thing though, his act of taking off Rasputin had the approval of his reputedly saint aunt, Ella.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2012, 01:35:54 PM by grandduchessella »

Offline grandduchessella

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Re: Ella and her foster children Marie Pavlovna and Dmitri
« Reply #423 on: November 15, 2012, 01:39:05 PM »
Dostoevsky met Serge at a dinner at the Winter Palace. The author had been invited by Serge's Professor. I don't know whether the invitation was extended on Serge's behalf, as he was a fan, or at the other man's discretion. I'm not sure of the date but since Dostoevsky died in 1881, it would've had to be while Serge was somewhere between a teen and a young man.

Anyone wanting to read about Serge & Dostoevsky can go to the following article (it's a little hard to follow so I'm thinking it's a translation):

http://yqyq.net/40025-Velikiiy_Knyaz_Sergeiy_Aleksandrovich_i_F_M_Dostoevskiiy_duhovnoe_rodstvo.html

I don't think Marie P was that religious as it plays almost no role in her 2 autobiographies. I think it would warrant more mention had she more than an average inclination. That's not to say that she was non-religious, however.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2012, 01:47:08 PM by grandduchessella »
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Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Ella and her foster children Marie Pavlovna and Dmitri
« Reply #424 on: November 15, 2012, 02:37:15 PM »
Yes. Marie wasn't religious, but not anti-religion as well.

Offline Kalafrana

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Re: Ella and her foster children Marie Pavlovna and Dmitri
« Reply #425 on: November 15, 2012, 02:41:29 PM »
Grand Duchess Ella

Thank you. I will follow your link.


Eric

You have asked a question, then proceeded to answer it yourself!

Ann

Offline perdita

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Re: Ella and her foster children Marie Pavlovna and Dmitri
« Reply #426 on: November 16, 2012, 01:24:33 AM »
If you want to live in a rose tainted bowl and ignored the truth of how Alicky was a control freak mother. Olga who wanted to break away and had serious problems with her mother and Marie whose last affair with the guards was "ignored" by the family shortly before they were executed. There is enough material to rebutt the ideal vision that you indicate. The truth is not always beautiful, but it is real. I personally belong to the Eastern Orthodox Church and the girls were sainted because of the way they died.

Nicholas was of course weak (he allowed the marriages of Kyrill, Paul & Misha to go through and gave Ducky the title of grand duchess). King Edward VIII once said he liked his Russian nephew (Nicholas II) but he was as weak as water. Miechen said Alexandra should be shut up in a nunnery and ready to make that happen. Respect ?

And there is enough FIRST HAND material --letters, diaries, family members, eye witness staff, etc.,  to rebutt your nightmare version of Nicholas & Alexandra's family life.

Courtiers described OTMA as "wild as hawks". Their social contacts may have been limited, but the Grand Duchesses were hardly abused or supressed. In fact, the eye witness concensus had it that the girls were charming, happy, & "sufficient unto themselves".

Most Romanovs had a wide circle of friends in Russian society. Give evidence that those contacts led to their fullfilled potential, contentment, or a moral compass.

How many members of the Russian royal family liked or respected Miechen? With the exception of boon companion Marie Alexandrovna--WHO? Ever the indulgent mother, Miechen's three sons were hardly paragons of virtue flaunting their myriad of outstanding public accomplishments.

Hint: Shutting up Alexandra in a nunnery would not have saved Russia from being Russia.

"Weak as water" might be a fair description of Edward V11's private character & public example. Edward V11 was also an absentee father.  
Better OTMA--than Eddy of Clarence.
Do you imagine that OTMA would have exchanged their lives for the VERY socially stunted existence of the "Motherdear" dominated Princess Louise, Victoria, & Maud?
Would OTMA have traded their parents for the Duke of Windsor's George V & Queen Mary?
Would OTMA have exchanged their parents for King Ferdinand & Queen Marie of Rumania? --Or for the relationsip "Missy" had with her children Carol, Nicholas, or Elzabetha? Or for the relationship Marie & Dmitri had with the Grand Duke Paul?

The answer: A resounding NO.

In fact, the Duke of Windsor wrote that he envied the Tsar's children's relationship with their father.

Other than second hand gossip & revisionist supposition, submit your credible first hand accounts that the Grand Duchess Marie had affairs with prison guards. Did her parents & sisters say that? Family retainers?

Incidentally, had Olga Nichoelavna wanted to "break away" then why, by age 23, hadn't she done it? The eldest daughter of the Tsar must have been "breaking away" a long time to get no further than her parent's dinner table. Where is the documentation that Olga showed any serious initiative to persue a separate existence apart from her family. Actions, or rather non actions, SPEAK volumes.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2012, 01:49:23 AM by perdita »

Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Ella and her foster children Marie Pavlovna and Dmitri
« Reply #427 on: November 16, 2012, 10:54:58 AM »
I respect your opinion on the Romanovs and OMTA. Please respect mine too.

Not sure if they wouldn't trade in their parents for a more structure one in Windsor. Princess Mary turned out very fine and without problems. Don't think she would think of going to Uncle Nicky & Aunt Alicky's with her fanatical forms of religion (Queen Mary had very harsh words on Alicky's fanatic ideas of religion), kissed good night by Rasputin, snoting coke, and murky relationship with Anna Vubyoia. Missy who was a successful ruler and raised fine daughters was right to call the atmosphere in Imperial Household as "unreal". In the later years when the daughters begining to grow up, Alicky did not try to find them suitable husbands, but kept them back as children (Olga & Tatiana were officially out). Olga received the brunt of Alicky's criticism since she felt the situation of Russia not going well and did voice her opinion. Not sure if the family harmony would have continued had they were allowed to live. Both Tatiana & Anastasia were more easy going, while Marie was definitely going her own way (as far as men is concerned).

I think Olga Alexandrovna did wrote that she respected Miechen, although may not have "liked" her. Miechen was one that command respect than love any way. Both she was Minnie viewed Alicky with skepticism the way she allowed Rasputin to run the country. 

Yet the Duke of Windsor did not envy Alicky as a mother to him, that said volumes on how she was viewed in England. I think Alicky was not a good mother, she spoiled Alexis and was hard on Olga. In fact, most of their children preferred their father to their mother.

That was in Greg King last book. "the fate of the Romanovs" The information came from the archievs in Russia and well documented. Both his book and Virginia Rounding's book broke the chocolate box image of the Imperial Family for me. Do read it before you judge if you are really interested in the truth.

Offline Svetabel

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Re: Ella and her foster children Marie Pavlovna and Dmitri
« Reply #428 on: November 16, 2012, 01:00:31 PM »
Back to topic, please.

Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Ella and her foster children Marie Pavlovna and Dmitri
« Reply #429 on: November 16, 2012, 04:45:15 PM »
I do wonder if Marie had a governess ?

Offline Mandie, the Gothic Empress

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Re: Ella and her foster children Marie Pavlovna and Dmitri
« Reply #430 on: November 16, 2012, 05:36:56 PM »
^ fgskjfwqgaweioh SERIOUSLY ERIC? why ask such a question  which i bid you know it already.

Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Ella and her foster children Marie Pavlovna and Dmitri
« Reply #431 on: November 17, 2012, 07:58:12 AM »
How do you know I know ? I know about her English Nanny and more from Charlotte Zeepvat's "From Cradle to Throne".

Offline Svetabel

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Re: Ella and her foster children Marie Pavlovna and Dmitri
« Reply #432 on: November 17, 2012, 08:16:04 AM »
I do wonder if Marie had a governess ?

Never read Maria's memoirs?

Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Ella and her foster children Marie Pavlovna and Dmitri
« Reply #433 on: November 17, 2012, 10:09:27 AM »
I did. She did not seem to have a lasting relationship with her unlike Alicky with Margaret Jackson...

Offline Svetabel

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Re: Ella and her foster children Marie Pavlovna and Dmitri
« Reply #434 on: November 17, 2012, 12:06:13 PM »
I did. She did not seem to have a lasting relationship with her unlike Alicky with Margaret Jackson...

So, you DO know that Maria had a governess, why asking it?