Author Topic: GD' diaries in captivity  (Read 5625 times)

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Offline matushka

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GD' diaries in captivity
« on: September 19, 2005, 08:15:07 AM »
Reading with great interest the russian translation of the Fate of the Romanov, I ask me something: why not using the OTMA's diaries? And do these diaries exist in GARF or anywhere? I think they do. We know that Maria and Anastasia burnt their Diaries in Tobolsk. But did they carry on writing a diary after? And what about the Olga and Tatiana'diaries? Why not using them, for curiosity, but also for a more exact description of the days in the Ipatiev House. Penny Wilson and Greg King insist on some events as the eventuel "Olga's drama", the eventual "MAria's romance', on the fabricated letters they receive, on the relationship with Avdeev, with the youngs gards, on the real life in Ipatiev House. Perhaps would we find more exact informations on these themas and other in their diaries? Or they are not open for researchers? My question is for the authors of the Fate of the Romanov, but also for anyone who work on the Final Chapter and know the Archives. Thank you in advance.

Offline Penny_Wilson

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Re: GD' diaries in captivity
« Reply #1 on: September 19, 2005, 10:44:05 AM »
Quote
Reading with great interest the russian translation of the Fate of the Romanov, I ask me something: why not using the OTMA's diaries? And do these diaries exist in GARF or anywhere? I think they do.


I know that there are -- or at least, there were five years ago when we started work on FOTR --  lots and lots of Romanov-related items in GARF and other archives that have not yet been cataloged and made available for study.  It's possible that these OTMA diaries are among those unarchived items. We do know from Victor Netrebin's memoirs that there were what he called "diaries and journals of the executed" scattered around the Romanovs' rooms in the Ipatiev House on the morning after the murders -- also letters, postcards, dried flowers, poems and other documents, all of which were taken by Yurovsky to Moscow.

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We know that Maria and Anastasia burnt their Diaries in Tobolsk. But did they carry on writing a diary after?


I have no idea.  There's no evidence that Maria and Anastasia started other diaries and journals -- but it's certainly possible that they did, and that these diaries will surface at some point in time for another researcher/writer to use them in another book.

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And what about the Olga and Tatiana'diaries?


Again, they may be somewhere, but I don't know where.  If they existed on the morning after the execution, Yurovsky probably brought them to Moscow.  Victor Netrebin said that while he and the other guards were packing up the Romanovs' possessions, they would read out loud to each other excerpts from the diaries and journals that they found.  He said that there was nothing of especial interest in them -- and though they would certainly be of interest to us today, no matter how simple and uninformative the entries, they could well have been considered unimportant by the Bolsheviks and simply left with an archive somewhere -- or even destroyed.  And as Netrebin said that he and other guards hadn't wanted to turn over some of the items "in their handwriting," it might also be possible that some of this stuff was looted.

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Why not using them, for curiosity, but also for a more exact description of the days in the Ipatiev House.


They simply weren't available to us -- if they exist.

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Penny Wilson and Greg King insist on some events as the eventuel "Olga's drama", the eventual "MAria's romance', on the fabricated letters they receive, on the relationship with Avdeev, with the youngs gards, on the real life in Ipatiev House. Perhaps would we find more exact informations on these themas and other in their diaries? Or they are not open for researchers?


I wouldn't say that we "insist" on any of our findings -- it's just that this is the way it seemed to us to have happened, based on the material with which we worked.  It's like a jigsaw puzzle -- we added a few more pieces that cast a new light on some parts of the big picture.  But in another few years, another researcher or writer might well find more written evidence -- perhaps even in the form of diaries and journals belonging to OTMA -- that shows the puzzle in quite a different light, or tells that we were heading in the right direction.

Only time will tell...  :D

But Matushka -- here's an observation:  Our publisher, John Wiley & Sons, only recently sent us copies of our book in the Russian translation, and, being busy with the next book, we haven't had the opportunity to read the book closely, but we did notice that our footnotes/end notes were not included in the translation.  There are notes in the book, but they appear to be the translators notes, and not ours.  In the English-language version of the book, there are 77 pages of quite detailed notes.  I'd be interested to hear from someone who has read both Russian and English versions, just to see how they compare...
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Offline amelia

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Re: GD' diaries in captivity
« Reply #2 on: September 19, 2005, 07:22:05 PM »
Dear Penny,


Thank you for the explanation.  I take this opportunity to congratulate you and Greg King for The Fate of the Romanovs - it is a wonderful book, that explains a lot that I did not know.

What book are you writing now? Is it with Greg King?  I understand that he is also writing some other book.

Thank you
Amelia

Offline Laura Mabee

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Re: GD' diaries in captivity
« Reply #3 on: September 19, 2005, 10:43:03 PM »
I too am interested to know which books you and Greg are writing.

Offline rgt9w

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Re: GD' diaries in captivity
« Reply #4 on: September 20, 2005, 06:50:28 AM »
Dear Penny,

I would also like to say that I enjoyed reading FOTR and I am looking forward to your next book.

Related to this subject, I would like to ask about your own thoughts about GARF. Since you have worked extensively in the archives, did you come away with any ideas as to why the Soviet government kept so many personal documents and materials related to the Romanovs. Why not destroy them since the official government line was the Romanov Dynasty must be wiped away?

Lastly, are any copies of the FOTR special edition of Atlantis Magazine still available? If so, how might I obtained one?

Kind Regards,

Roy (rgt9w)

Offline matushka

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Re: GD' diaries in captivity
« Reply #5 on: September 21, 2005, 04:15:25 PM »
Dear Mrs Wilson, thank you very much for your very complete and interesting answer.
About the russian translation your book: I did not read the english one, so can not mke any comparaison. I just remark that your own footnotes ARE actually in the book. But the editor (or the translator) placed them at the end, after the list of the guards and the list of Romanov`s things. As the translator writes, he did not include the footnotes with bibliographical notations, only the longs, informatives and detailed one. The translator included, as you said, his own footnotes, addind some information or making correction. As he seems to be an orthodox believer, his footnotes have often a religious character.
Mrs Wilson, I have also 2 insignifiant questions about our first thema.
I remember I saw in some books (first time in V: Alexandrov`s old book) a picture of Olga`s last diary and a page (alone, not on the diary) with the famous poem "Molitva". Is that right? And who took this picture?  when was it taken ? By the Whites? In that case, where are those document at the moment?
second question, I already ask it, but noone answer me: are the so interesting letters of the children to their parents and Maria published by Eugenie de Grece in a french translation authentics? How do you think they came to her father?

Offline matushka

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Re: GD' diaries in captivity
« Reply #6 on: September 21, 2005, 04:19:16 PM »
I do apologize for my bad english...

Offline lexi4

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Re: GD' diaries in captivity
« Reply #7 on: September 21, 2005, 10:16:20 PM »
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I do apologize for my bad english...


No need to apologize Matushka. You do fine and I can't even say hello in Russian.
;)
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely, in a pretty and well preserved body; but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming, "Wow ---- What a ride!!!"

Offline Sarushka

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Re: GD' diaries in captivity
« Reply #8 on: September 22, 2005, 12:27:04 PM »
Hey folks --

Penny recently referred me to this book as an excellent source for the Imperial Family's letters from captivity:
http://www.panrus.com/books/details.php?langID=1&bookID=5495.
It's called Pered Rasstrelom [Before the Shooting].

Unfortunately for some of us, it's only available in Russian. I just got my copy, and it's probably going to take ages to translate, but I'm very excited!  8)

Each member of the family has their own section in the book. Here's the breakdown:
Nicky - 6 letters
Alix - 48 letters
Olga - 34 letters
Tatiana - 24 letters
Maria - 11 letters
Anastasia - 1 letter
Alexei - 12 letters

Their correspondents include Anna Vyrubova, Kolya Derevenko, Ksenia Alexandrovna, Pyotr Petrov, Margarita Khitrovo, Tatiana Botkin, and others. This book includes many more letters (though not the replies) than Lifelong Passion, which relies much more on diary entries from this period.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by sarahelizabethii »
THE LOST CROWN: A Novel of Romanov Russia -- now in paperback!
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Offline Holly

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Re: GD' diaries in captivity
« Reply #9 on: September 22, 2005, 09:13:50 PM »
Only one of Anastasia's?! Surely she wrote more than that!  :-/
"Господь им дал дар по молитвам их размягчать окаменелые наши сердца за их страдания..Мне думается, что если люди будут молиться Царской Cемье, оттают сердца с Божией помощью."

http://www.otmaa.org -- Coming Soon.

Offline Margarita Markovna

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Re: GD' diaries in captivity
« Reply #10 on: September 23, 2005, 07:53:09 PM »
I'm more surprised that Nicky only had 6, in comparison to the rest of the family.

Although maybe it doesn't  include every single letter ever during that period...

Offline Sarushka

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Re: GD' diaries in captivity
« Reply #11 on: September 23, 2005, 09:24:03 PM »
We've started translating some of the letters on this thread:
http://hydrogen.pallasweb.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=Books;action=display;num=1127407687
Come on over and have a peek!
THE LOST CROWN: A Novel of Romanov Russia -- now in paperback!
"A dramatic, powerful narrative and a masterful grasp of life in this vanished world." ~Greg King

Offline etonexile

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Re: GD' diaries in captivity
« Reply #12 on: September 23, 2005, 09:35:17 PM »
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I do apologize for my bad english...


Dear Matushka...
Yes,as lexi has said...we appreciate your interest and enthusiasm in this site... ;)

Offline stacey

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Re: GD' diaries in captivity
« Reply #13 on: November 28, 2005, 02:12:39 AM »
Matushka, you are priceless! What would we do without you and the other kind souls to translate for us?! Don't worry, your English is wonderful!! :)
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