Author Topic: Queen Maria Sophia of Two-Sicilies,nee Duchess in Bavaria  (Read 118018 times)

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Offline MarieCharlotte

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Queen Maria Sophia of Two-Sicilies,nee Duchess in Bavaria
« on: September 24, 2005, 07:19:15 AM »
Hallo,

I'm very interested in Queen Maria Sophia of Neaples, née Duchess in Bavaria and younger sister of Empress Elisabeth von Austria.
She was born on October 4th 1841 at Schloss Possenhofen / Starnberger See near Munich and died on January 19th 1925 in Munich (where exactly?). She was married to Francesco II. of Neaples - Two Sicilies.

I think most of the people here know about her time as last Queen of Neaples (1859/60) and the story of the child she gave birth to in Augsburg in 1862. But what about her life in later years? I know she lived in Paris, loved fox hunting in England, but what else?

And of course, pictures are always very very welcome. Does anybody have pics of Marie being an old woman? I once read that she had white hair...
« Last Edit: November 03, 2006, 05:31:02 AM by amedeo »
Ich aber breite trauernd aus
die weiten weissen Schwingen,
Und kehr' ins Feenreich nach Haus -
Nichts soll mich wieder bringen.


Elisabeth

Linnea

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Re: Queen Maria Sophia of Two-Sicilies,nee Duchess in Bavaria
« Reply #1 on: September 24, 2005, 07:59:52 AM »
Hi Marie!
I have read that in her very late years, Marie lived together with her sister Mathilde in their father´s Palais in Munich with some servants. I think she also died there.

Linnea

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Re: Queen Maria Sophia of Two-Sicilies,nee Duchess in Bavaria
« Reply #2 on: September 24, 2005, 08:05:43 AM »
An anecdote about old Marie: When her niece Elisabeth of Belgium visited her with her children, Marie pointed to Elisabeth´s daughter Marie José and said to her:" I hope you won´t ever marry that little Umberto of Italy." This was before the time anyone thought about a posssible marriage between Marie José of Belguim and Umberto of Italy!

Linnea

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Re: Queen Maria Sophia of Two-Sicilies,nee Duchess in Bavaria
« Reply #3 on: September 24, 2005, 10:04:06 AM »
After the abadiction of her husband, Marie moved to Rome. There she fell in love with a Belgian count, Armand de Lavayss, and became pregnant. To prevent a scandal, Marie had to leave Italy. On 24th November 1862, she gave birth to a daughter in Augsburg. The little girl was immediatly given to her father and Marie never saw her again. It is not sure wat happend to Marie´s daughter, some say she died in infancy, others claim that Marie Louise Wallersee was her daughter (not true of course!)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Linnea »

Offline Prince_Christopher

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Re: Queen Maria Sophia of Two-Sicilies,nee Duchess in Bavaria
« Reply #4 on: September 24, 2005, 10:15:19 AM »
Thanks, Linnea!

Did she ever reconcile with her husband?  Did she have any other children?
Anyone who has a library and a garden wants for nothing.
--Cicero

Linnea

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Re: Queen Maria Sophia of Two-Sicilies,nee Duchess in Bavaria
« Reply #5 on: September 24, 2005, 10:28:50 AM »
Yes, after Marie returned to Italy, their marriage became quite harmonic. In 1869, on Christmas Eve, their daughter Maria Pia was born in Rome. Sadly, the little girl died only some months old in 1870 due to an inattention of her nanny. Marie and Francesco left Rome for Paris after this tragic event.

Offline Prince_Christopher

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Re: Queen Maria Sophia of Two-Sicilies,nee Duchess in Bavaria
« Reply #6 on: September 24, 2005, 12:15:19 PM »
It seems like Maria Sophia's life leaned towards the dramatic and tragic, much like her sister's.
Anyone who has a library and a garden wants for nothing.
--Cicero

Offline MarieCharlotte

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Re: Queen Maria Sophia of Two-Sicilies,nee Duchess in Bavaria
« Reply #7 on: September 25, 2005, 08:31:03 AM »
First of all, thanks to you Agneschen ... I saw the pics you've posted in the Hohenzollern section. It is quite surprising, but I have never seen two of them before.

Linnea,

actually Marie's daughter was called Maria Christina after Queen Marie Christine, Franz II.'s mother. In Theroff's Online Gotha you can find the name "Christina Maria Anna Isabella Natalia Elisa" and in an old biography of Maria Sophia by Clara Tschudi the little girl's name is "Maria Christina Pia Louise".

Maria Sophie lived in Munich after WW I, that's right. I couldn't find any hint that she lived with her sister Mathilde. As far as I know she stayed with her sister-in-law Marie José in the so-called Maxpalais (Ludwigstraße). Some time before her death in 1925, she had a small appartement in the Wittelsbacherpalais.

No one really knows what happend on that November day in 1862. Some sources say that she gave birth to twins - I think this is just a rumour. And there is also no evidence that the baby was  given away, probably to his father. Maybe Marie later was in contact to her daughter ... we don't know at all.
We even can't be sure that "Armand de Lavayss" was the child's father. It's bizarr, but a count of this name has never been in Rome. There are hints that Nicolaus of Nassau had an affair with Marie and used "Armand de Lavayss" as a pseudonym.

Marie
Ich aber breite trauernd aus
die weiten weissen Schwingen,
Und kehr' ins Feenreich nach Haus -
Nichts soll mich wieder bringen.


Elisabeth

Linnea

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Re: Queen Maria Sophia of Two-Sicilies,nee Duchess in Bavaria
« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2005, 09:53:52 AM »
You are right with the name, MarieCharlotte, my fault! The thing with Marie´s first daughter is really a bit weird. I don´t think she had twins, this was a rumor spread by her niece Marie Louise Larisch...Maybe Armand de Lavayss was Nikolaus of Nassau, I don´t know much about this. Does somebody know who said this? And does anybody have a photo of Nikolaus of Nassau?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Linnea »

Linnea

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Re: Queen Maria Sophia of Two-Sicilies,nee Duchess in Bavaria
« Reply #9 on: September 25, 2005, 09:59:02 AM »

According to Leo van de Pas she was named Cristina Pia Maria Anna Isabella Natalia Ephasia
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Amedeo »

Offline MarieCharlotte

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Re: Queen Maria Sophia of Two-Sicilies,nee Duchess in Bavaria
« Reply #10 on: September 25, 2005, 01:10:36 PM »
Brigitte Sokop wrote a very interesting biography of Marie Louise Larisch. Because of Marie's claim to be a daughter of Queen Marie of Neaples, Brigitte Sokop wrote many pages about the happenings of 1862.

I don't have a pic of Nicolaus, but I'd love to see one ...

Marie
Ich aber breite trauernd aus
die weiten weissen Schwingen,
Und kehr' ins Feenreich nach Haus -
Nichts soll mich wieder bringen.


Elisabeth

Offline Danjel

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Re: Queen Maria Sophia of Two-Sicilies,nee Duchess in Bavaria
« Reply #11 on: September 26, 2005, 03:04:19 PM »
Nicolaus.....


Offline MarieCharlotte

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Re: Queen Maria Sophia of Two-Sicilies,nee Duchess in Bavaria
« Reply #12 on: November 30, 2005, 03:42:24 PM »
I think you read too much of that terrible book "Sisi und ihre Geschwister" (maybe "Sisi and her siblings" in the english version) by Erika Bestenreiner.

In fact no one really knows where and when Marie and Mathilde lived in Munich in their later years.
Of course, Marie Redwitz mentions in her chronicle that Marie and her sister-in-law Marie José lived in the Maxpalais in 1919. Some authors tell us that she later lived in the Wittelsbacherpalais, others believe that she lived somewhere around the Karlsplatz or that she stayed at the Hotel Königshof (which was named after her).
Ich aber breite trauernd aus
die weiten weissen Schwingen,
Und kehr' ins Feenreich nach Haus -
Nichts soll mich wieder bringen.


Elisabeth

Offline MarieCharlotte

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Re: Queen Maria Sophia of Two-Sicilies,nee Duchess in Bavaria
« Reply #13 on: December 01, 2005, 04:10:15 AM »
All right. Then you must be able to tell me where exactly Marie and Mathilde lived after WWI. I'm very excited about that.

BTW: Who gave you the permission to read Mathilde's letters to her son-in-law Wilhelm of Hohenzollern-Sigmaringen?
Ich aber breite trauernd aus
die weiten weissen Schwingen,
Und kehr' ins Feenreich nach Haus -
Nichts soll mich wieder bringen.


Elisabeth

Offline MarieCharlotte

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Re: Queen Maria Sophia of Two-Sicilies,nee Duchess in Bavaria
« Reply #14 on: December 01, 2005, 03:30:08 PM »
Eric, I am not satisfied with your answer at all. Everything you wrote about the places where Marie and Mathilde stayed, can be read in "Sisi und ihre Geschwister" by Bestenreiner. So I could have given the same answer without haven't seen one single letter. As far as I remember, Bestenreiner mentioned in her book that Mathilde's handwriting became absolutly illegible, some of her letters are even written by someone else and she signed them. Are you German? Otherwise I don't think you were able to make it out (sorry).

You wrote that Marie and Mathilde stayed somewhere outside Munich, maybe at lake STARNBERG. But you know that after WWI the few living members of the ducal family prefered to live in Tegernsee and Bad Kreuth? But there was of course Garatshausen which was once given to Marie's husband by his aunt Maria Anna, former Empress of Austria.

Did you do some research in Regensburg as well? Albert of T&T was Marie's favourite nephew and inherited a lot.
Ich aber breite trauernd aus
die weiten weissen Schwingen,
Und kehr' ins Feenreich nach Haus -
Nichts soll mich wieder bringen.


Elisabeth