Author Topic: The Duke of Monmouth  (Read 4101 times)

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palatine

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The Duke of Monmouth
« on: September 25, 2005, 06:24:02 AM »
An eyewitness report of the Duke of Monmouth's execution:

"The Executioner had five blows at him; after the first he look'd up & after the third he put his leggs a cross & the Hangman flung away his axe, but being chidd tooke it againe & gave him tother two strokes, & severed not his head from his body till he cut it off with his knife."

I haven't done much research into poor Monmouth or his mother, Lucy Walters.  I saw the topic for illegitimate children of the Stuarts, but Monmouth was the standout among the illegitimate children of Charles II, and I thought he deserved his own topic.

All of the above is just my opinion and your mileage may vary.

Offline Prince_Lieven

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Re: The Duke of Monmouth
« Reply #1 on: September 25, 2005, 07:15:24 AM »
Monmouth was quite well liked by his cousins, Mary and Anne of York. Around the time of his father's death, he was staying with Mary and William in the Hague where he was treated like a royal prince - as soon as James II became king he was sent on his way with advice from William to keep his nose clean. He didn't take this wise advice and started an ill advised rebellion, loftiliy declaring himself James II. He was defeated at the Battle of Sedgmoor, and the rest is history.
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Offline bell_the_cat

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Re: The Duke of Monmouth
« Reply #2 on: September 25, 2005, 07:23:10 AM »
Here he is.



He looks like a 1970s pop star does he not?
Never put off until tomorrow what you can put off until the day after tomorrow. (Mark Twain)

Offline Prince_Lieven

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Re: The Duke of Monmouth
« Reply #3 on: September 25, 2005, 07:26:58 AM »
He was very handsome and glamorous - his wife, Anne, Duchess of Monmouth, was quite an important figure at court during Charles II's reign. It was she, with Mary Beatrice and Queen Catherine, who was given the privelige of undressing Lady Mary of York when she married William of Orange.
"How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?"
-Sherlock Holmes

"Men forget, but never forgive; women forgive, but never forget."

Offline bell_the_cat

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Re: The Duke of Monmouth
« Reply #4 on: September 25, 2005, 07:28:54 AM »
Anne was also made Duchess of Buccleuch in her own right. They are the ancestors of the present Duke of Buccleuch, and the late Princess Alice.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by bell_the_cat »
Never put off until tomorrow what you can put off until the day after tomorrow. (Mark Twain)

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Re: The Duke of Monmouth
« Reply #5 on: September 25, 2005, 07:29:44 AM »
When did Anne die, does anyone know?
"How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?"
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Offline bell_the_cat

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Re: The Duke of Monmouth
« Reply #6 on: September 25, 2005, 07:33:21 AM »
She died in 1732!

Her own title was not subject to attainder after the Monmouth rebellion, so she and her heirs got to keep it.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by bell_the_cat »
Never put off until tomorrow what you can put off until the day after tomorrow. (Mark Twain)

Offline Prince_Lieven

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Re: The Duke of Monmouth
« Reply #7 on: September 25, 2005, 07:34:51 AM »
Ooh, she must have beeb quite old when she died.

I wonder how did she and Monmouth feel about each other? A happy marriage? If he was his father's son I'm sure there were mistresses!  ;D
"How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?"
-Sherlock Holmes

"Men forget, but never forgive; women forgive, but never forget."

Offline bell_the_cat

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Re: The Duke of Monmouth
« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2005, 07:37:41 AM »
She would have been about 80.

I don't know if they were happy - I thought you would know!

Didn't you tell the story of how he seduced one of his father's mistresses (Barbara?) when he was 14?


Never put off until tomorrow what you can put off until the day after tomorrow. (Mark Twain)

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Re: The Duke of Monmouth
« Reply #9 on: September 25, 2005, 07:47:18 AM »
Actually, it was Barbara who seduced him - I can't imagine a 14 year old seducing anyone! I think they were happy . . . I never heard of them being particularly unhappy. I've searched about, and can't find any bastards he may have had.
"How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?"
-Sherlock Holmes

"Men forget, but never forgive; women forgive, but never forget."

Offline bell_the_cat

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Re: The Duke of Monmouth
« Reply #10 on: September 25, 2005, 07:50:05 AM »
Quote
Actually, it was Barbara who seduced him - I can't imagine a 14 year old seducing anyone! I think they were happy . . . I never heard of them being particularly unhappy. I've searched about, and can't find any bastards he may have had.


I was giving the good lady the benefit of the doubt!
Never put off until tomorrow what you can put off until the day after tomorrow. (Mark Twain)

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Re: The Duke of Monmouth
« Reply #11 on: September 25, 2005, 08:02:25 AM »
 ;D ;D ;D She is quite unworthy, I assure you, Bell!  ;D
"How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?"
-Sherlock Holmes

"Men forget, but never forgive; women forgive, but never forget."

palatine

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Re: The Duke of Monmouth
« Reply #12 on: October 01, 2005, 04:49:39 PM »
I found out some ugly truths about the Protestant Duke, as the London mob called him in his heyday.  It turns out that Monmouth murdered a night watchman in the course of a night of drunken partying, and Charles II issued a pardon rather than punish him for it.  This may not have been his first murder.  

Although he had an income of about 600,000 dollars in today's money, Monmouth was always in debt and was repeatedly bailed out by Charles II.  He and his wife spent almost a third of their income on clothes every year.

He did indeed have mistresses.  At the time of his death, he was involved with Lady Henrietta Wentworth, and seems to have had a child by her.

I also learned that James II and many others believed that Monmouth was not the son of Charles II, but the child of one of Lucy Walters's other lovers.  

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by palatine »

Offline bell_the_cat

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Re: The Duke of Monmouth
« Reply #13 on: October 07, 2005, 09:31:49 AM »
In Monmouth's defence, he didn't have a very stable homelife.

Monmouth's wife Anne didn't really approve of his political ambitions.

Monmouth is "Absalom" in Dryden's satire "Absalom and Architophel". Charles is Absalom's father, the polygamous King David. His queen is Michal (Catherine). It's an amusing read for anyone interested in the political ups and downs ca. 1678-82. All the contemporary politicians are referred to as if they are characters in the Old Testament. Anne Scott ("Annabel") was a good friend of Dryden, although the poem is crtical of Monmouth's actions at this period.

After Charles's death, Dryden became a catholic, being a supporter of James (bad timing!). He lost his office of poet laureate after the Glorious Revolution.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by bell_the_cat »
Never put off until tomorrow what you can put off until the day after tomorrow. (Mark Twain)