Author Topic: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family  (Read 109534 times)

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Offline pouvoir aux canard

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Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
« Reply #60 on: July 09, 2006, 07:26:21 AM »
Hélène, before WW1, created a school for Red Cross' nurses. During WW1 she directed Italian Red Cross (8560 sections)...

After WW1, on 1919, she created a foundation to help children of peculiars territories (Trieste, Gorizia, Fiume...) because she understood that here, there will be again (between Italy, Austria, Hungary, and new Yougoslavia) a future with fights, wars, misery... Into this foundation there is (it still exists with an another name : Opera nazionale di assistenza all'infanzia delle regioni di confine (O.N.AI.R.C.) ) a school for nurses, schools, holidays houses, etc.
 
After WW1 she dismissed from Red Cross and lived part in Italy and part in Africa visiting many lands, hunting, studying peoples.

After the death of his husband (1931) she married as said in this thread, and travelled again specially in Africa.

On 1947 she gave to the National Library of Napoli 11 000 books, 10 000 photographies, a huge collection of antropologic african items, trophies of hunted animals, 1 000 books on Africa, and the beautiful shelves and furnitures of his private library in CAPODIMONTE PALACE in Napoli were mainly she lived during his life. 2 others members of his italian family also loved Africa, but this will be a topic for an other thread...

C-C
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by pouvoir_aux_canard »

Offline Guinastasia

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Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
« Reply #61 on: August 10, 2006, 06:54:25 PM »
Maybe I'm just stupid, but I've never understood why she was unable to convert to Anglicanism.  Why did she need her father's or the Pope's permission?  Of course the Pope would say no-but if she converted, what could he do, excommunicate her, which would be rather redundant.  Her father's, I can understand wanting his blessing, but the Pope's?  That's just strange.

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Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
« Reply #62 on: August 10, 2006, 08:25:22 PM »
Well...In those days. The Pope's illicial blessing is important for Catholics to marry a Protestant. When Henrietta Maria & Catherine of Braganza married King Charles I & II. The Pope gave his blessing in hope of converting the Britiah kings back to Catholism. Helene was only following tradition.  :P

Offline Guinastasia

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Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
« Reply #63 on: August 10, 2006, 10:45:47 PM »
I guess, I just think it's strange to ask his permission to convert to another religion.  If you do it anyways, what can he do?

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Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
« Reply #64 on: August 11, 2006, 02:05:50 AM »
It is how Catholics were taught. The pope is the head of the church, just like the father is the head of the house. Helene was refused on both fronts.  :(

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Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
« Reply #65 on: August 11, 2006, 08:34:46 AM »
I guess, I just think it's strange to ask his permission to convert to another religion.  If you do it anyways, what can he do?



Converting without the Pope's permission would have meant excommunication. Crown Prince Ferdinand of Romania was excommunicated because he allowed his children to be raised in the Orthodox faith and suffered greatly from it. As for Pcess Hélène, such a thing was not thinkable in her milieu at the time. The French royal dynasty was a catholic one (King Henri IV was born protestant but had to convert to ascend the French throne upon which he is said to have said that Paris was worth a mass). Religion meant much more than it does nowadays. This may seem silly or strange to people who have not been raised in the Catholic religion and cannot understand what the Pope means to us as Head of the Church but I own that if such a thing ever happened to me (excommunication), I would feel it dreadfully. 

Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
« Reply #66 on: August 11, 2006, 08:39:38 AM »
Yes it takes a Catholic to know what it means...(I was once I knew...)  ::)

Offline Guinastasia

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Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
« Reply #67 on: August 11, 2006, 12:22:55 PM »
Actually, I was raised Catholic, I even had nine years of Catholic school, and attended a Catholic college, (although I no longer practice), but it still seems odd to care about excommunication if you're converting, to me personally.  Excommunication would be horrible...but I would imagine that a conversion is an automatic excommunication anyways.  You'd be part of a different faith, and therefore, the Pope would no longer be considered your boss, so to speak.

Oh well. 
May the road rise up to meet you.
May the wind always be at your back.
May the sun shine warm upon your face,
and rains fall soft upon your fields.
And until we meet again,
May God hold you in the palm of His hand.

Offline pouvoir aux canards

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Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
« Reply #68 on: August 11, 2006, 02:41:52 PM »
I forgot to write that she was enthusiat of Fascism... She was also rather close to some fascist italian leaders and always ready to meet other european fascists... :-[  So we can say that she converted to Fascist Faith... ::)

Your amused

M. Canard

Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
« Reply #69 on: August 11, 2006, 09:02:16 PM »
Maybe she was adicted to authoritaive figures like the pope, military leaders... ???

Offline grandduchessella

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Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
« Reply #70 on: August 11, 2006, 10:50:32 PM »
Actually, I was raised Catholic, I even had nine years of Catholic school, and attended a Catholic college, (although I no longer practice), but it still seems odd to care about excommunication if you're converting, to me personally.  Excommunication would be horrible...but I would imagine that a conversion is an automatic excommunication anyways.  You'd be part of a different faith, and therefore, the Pope would no longer be considered your boss, so to speak.

Oh well. 


Yes, but we're talking pre-Vatican II here. Excommunication--the most serious ecclesiastical penalty--would mean that she very well could've been shunned by her family. In addition, the Orleans family was a very Catholic one (Marie Orleans was granted the right to raise any daughters as Catholic as an agreement upon marrying Waldemar of Denmark) and it may have been like a death. Helene would've been completely cut off from the daily life of the Church, including sacraments. To give up your entire faith "just" for mortal love would be inconceivable to many. You find this in many religions, including the 'traditionalist' Catholic movement (ie those who adhere to the pre-Vatican II rules), Judaism, Islam, etc...where the person is just cut off from their family for switching faith. In Helene's case, and I suppose Nando's, I think the charge woud've been that of apostasy--the formal renunciation of one's religion, especially if the motive is deemed unworthy.

Certainly, Helene could have defied her father and her Church--they may not have even excommunicated her--but I suppose her loyalty to the two overrode her love for Eddy. It would've been a lot of a princess to marry in defiance of her parents's wishes and for a Catholic to marry in defiance of her faith. They were very different times.

It is extremely rare nowadays for the RC Church to excommunicate anyone--conversion or not. They hold that, basically, 'once a Catholic, always a Catholic', if you received a Catholic baptism. You would be welcomed back to the Church at anytime, not exiled from it.

On the side note of Nando, I was unaware he was excommunicated. He received a Christian burial, didn't he? As one excommunicated that would've been denied him. Was Ferdinand of Bulgaria treated the same? He had made an agreement to raise the children Catholic and enraged his wife, Marie Louise of Bourbon-Parma, and the Catholic Church, when he decided to raise them Othodox as well.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2006, 10:53:42 PM by grandduchessella »
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Offline grandduchessella

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Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
« Reply #71 on: August 11, 2006, 10:55:22 PM »
Maybe she was adicted to authoritaive figures like the pope, military leaders... ???

Or perhaps she, like other royals, saw in such a figures a guaranteed bulwark against revolutionary forces that would seek the overthrow of the monarchy.
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Offline José

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Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
« Reply #72 on: November 02, 2006, 09:57:19 AM »
Thanks a lot.
I have found Ferdinand de Montpensier but never his wife.

Offline Speedycat

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Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
« Reply #73 on: April 09, 2007, 11:11:58 AM »
Just found this charming picture of Helene, Duchess of Aosta with her sons Amedeo (standing) and Aimone.  Hope you don't mind me dragging up this old topic as I just had time today to browse through some old "Royalty Digest" magazines and thought this would be relevant to this thread..........


Offline basilforever

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Re: Count Louis Philippe de Paris (1838-94) and his family
« Reply #74 on: April 12, 2007, 06:05:21 AM »
In fact, the study of Helene's ancestors proves interesting.

Among them she could count:
-Charles I of Britain (through his daughter Minette)
-Felipe V of Spain and his wife Elisabeth Farnese
-Empress Maria Theresa and her husband Francois Stephen of Lorraine
-Louis XV of France
-Carlos III of Spain

Certainly 'royal' enough to marry Prince Eddy!

Yes that's right, I was marvelling myself through my research at how great her geneaology was and so suitable for Eddy. The legitimate descent from Charles I is particularly impressive for a Queen of Britain, if she had been allowed to become that. To think what might have been?!!!!  :P
His Royal Highness Prince Albert Victor Christian Edward of Wales, Duke of Clarence and Avondale, Earl of Athlone, Knight of The Most Noble Order of the Garter, Knight of The Most Illustrious Order of St Patrick