Author Topic: Richard Cullen's Documentary on Rasputin as Shown on Discovery Channel  (Read 45551 times)

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Offline Arleen

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Re: Rasputin show tonight
« Reply #60 on: October 19, 2005, 02:07:44 PM »
Richard, the ONLY reason I am interested in R's penis is because it was mentioned in a chapter of Maria Rasputin's second book. She claimed that Felix or his Butler severed it and that a cult of little old Parisian ladies claimed to have it, and was greatly venerated by them.

I have never for a minute believed it, but merely wondered what the REAL autopsy report said about it.....and you have answered my question and I thank you sir!

But!  There was at one time a ghastly photo posted, with article, about the museum in Moscow who claim to have Felix's penis in a jar, which they show quite promanently...right here on the APTM forum.  

Thank you for your help.
Arleen

Offline Arleen

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Re: Rasputin show tonight
« Reply #61 on: October 19, 2005, 02:25:39 PM »
Richard, Another question please.....

What have you found out about there supposedly being a couple of women there at the Palace during all of this time.  I have two books on the subject and they seem to be just about opposites on everything and it is very frustrating to me because I would so much like to know the truth.

Also were a couple of Irina's brothers there too?  What do YOU believe about who was actually there?

I wish so much I could have seen your TV program,(no cable) if anyone out there happened to tape it and would loan it to me, I would greatly appreciate it....just im me.  Felix would tell you that I am good for sending back books and also postage.....

Many thanks,
Arleen


Offline Helen_Azar

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Re: Rasputin show tonight
« Reply #62 on: October 19, 2005, 09:09:29 PM »
Also, here is an archive photo of the Moika mansion circa 1910's, around the time when Rasputin was killed...


Offline Sarushka

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Re: Rasputin show tonight
« Reply #63 on: October 19, 2005, 10:42:18 PM »
Quote
The answer to your question lies several entries back in this theme.

Entry to the part of the room shown is through either the archway at the top of the picture next to the waxwork of Y or through a similar arch at the bottom left of the picture.

The stairway to the landing leading to the yard door and upwards to the private study is bottomleft beyond the archway.


Thanks, Richard, for reposting that info I'd missed.
I appreciate all time you're spending with our questions. The discrepancies between the "official" story and the forensic evidence fascinate me.  8)

And thank you, Brian, for the photos.
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Offline Richard_Cullen

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Re: Rasputin show tonight
« Reply #64 on: October 20, 2005, 05:23:36 AM »
Hi

I don't believe the 'penis' story although the crushing of the testicles indicates some pseudo sexual tendencies, or maybe it was just as part of soem form of torture.  I think there is a lot of fantasy about the size of r's member and this is one of the obscure myhts that has built up around him.

The old picture of the Y Palace is interesting as it shows another door to the left of the mani entrance that is now bricked over.  Brian has referred to this on the Yusupov part of the site.

Women present - i am afriad I think it is a huge red herring and Andrew Cook includes this in his book on the basis of a 'police report' my view is the police report is a doctored report and I sense the dead hand of Rasputin's secretary on this.

the two cops from whom we have statements Vlasuk and Efimov do not mention any of this strange that two people should eb so alert but miss all this action.

Vlasuk version ties in with what Y and P say about Vlasuk visiting the Palace after heraing shots.

Richard

I feel like one
Who treads alone
Some banquet-hall deserted,
Whose lights are fled,
Whose garlands dead,
And all, but he, departed!
Refrain:
Thus, in the stilly night,
Ere slumber’s chain hath bound me,
Sad mem’ry brings the light
Of other days around me.

Thomas Moore 1815

Offline Richard_Cullen

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Re: Rasputin show tonight
« Reply #65 on: October 20, 2005, 05:27:27 AM »
Some of my notes on forensics

Commentary on the Kossorotov Post Mortem and the Zharov, Panov and Vasilevskiy Report

      There is no forensic evidence that Rasputin was poisoned by the use of cyanide.

      At the time of his demise Rasputin was in a state of drunkenness

      Rasputin did not die of drowning

      There is evidence that Rasputin was shot three times

      All three weapons were fired from a range of no more than 20 centimetres

      All three bullets were from different calibre weapons

      It is impossible to know the sequence of the shots but the shot to the forehead would have been immediately disabling and was therefore in all likelihood the last.

      Both the shot to his left side (stomach/liver) and right side of back (kidney) would individually have been fatal in 10 to 20 minutes.

      The head and body had been beaten with a hard but supple weapon consistent with the cosh Yusupov refers to.

      The gentiles were crushed with the same weapon.  This is indicative of a sexual/revenge attack.

      The face was considerably disfigured

      It is impossible to identify whether certain injuries were caused ante or post mortem – for instance hitting the bridge supports.



I feel like one
Who treads alone
Some banquet-hall deserted,
Whose lights are fled,
Whose garlands dead,
And all, but he, departed!
Refrain:
Thus, in the stilly night,
Ere slumber’s chain hath bound me,
Sad mem’ry brings the light
Of other days around me.

Thomas Moore 1815

Offline Richard_Cullen

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Re: Rasputin show tonight
« Reply #66 on: October 20, 2005, 05:31:21 AM »
Who knew of the murder plot?

In addition to Yusupov, Dimitry, Purishkevich, Lazovert and Sukhotin who else knew of the plot to kill?  In no particular order (conspirator identifying in brackets) these are:

Yusupov’s wife Irina and his mother, (Yusupov and correspondence)
Mrs Purishkevich, (Purishkevich)
Mrs Lazovert (Purishkevich)
Maklakov, (Yusupov and Purishkevich)
Rodzianko, The President of the Duma, and his wife (Yusupov)
Oswald Rayner, British Special Intelligence Service (Yusupov) – thus his fellow agents John Scale and Stephen Alley
Theodore – Yusupov’s brother-in-law (Yusupov)
Dimitry’s valet (Purishkevich)
V.V Shulgin, Deputy in the 2nd, 3rd and 4th Dumas (memoirs)

The list is likely to be substantially longer as Yusupov tells us: “I imagined that it would be easy to find a few determined men ready to help me to find a way of eliminating Rasputin.  The conversation I had on the subject with different influential people left me with few illusions.  The very men who were the most violent whenever the starets’ name was mentioned became reticent at once when I told them the time had come to act.’

Strange is it not that the Tsar’s secret police the Okhrana were unaware of the plot with so many people being aware of it?

Richard
I feel like one
Who treads alone
Some banquet-hall deserted,
Whose lights are fled,
Whose garlands dead,
And all, but he, departed!
Refrain:
Thus, in the stilly night,
Ere slumber’s chain hath bound me,
Sad mem’ry brings the light
Of other days around me.

Thomas Moore 1815

Offline Richard_Cullen

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Re: Rasputin show tonight
« Reply #67 on: October 20, 2005, 05:39:41 AM »
TIMINGS

Where times are included in statements or accounts I have shown them against the witness who gives that time.  Purishkevich’s time for the basement shooting is calculated from taking his initial timing of 00.45 hours and then adding the various intervals he refers to.  He is specific about the yard shooting time and back tracking half an hour from 0300 hours (he says it was half an hour since he had seen Rasputin on the floor) we come to the same figure.

Purishkevich tells us that Lazovert, Sukhotin and Dimitry were to drive from the Yusupov Palace to Warsaw Station where Mrs Purishkevich and Mrs Lazovert were to burn Rasputin’s clothes.  Then Lazovert and his passengers would load the car onto the supply wagon connected to Purishkevich’s train. They would then all go by taxi or on foot to Sergei Alexandrovich’s Palace on the Nevsky where they would collect Dimitry’s car.

Purishkevich tells us that Dimitry drove his car fairly slowly through the city to the Nevka. ‘It was very late and the Grand Duke evidently feared that great speed would attract the suspicion of the police.’

I have then used his timings and added a little for Dimitry’s return, this would allow one and half hours for travel to Warsaw Station, try to dispose of Rasputin’s coat, load the car onto the train, then to Sergei Alexandrovich’s Palace, to pick up Dimitry’s car and return to the Yusupov Palace to pick up the body.  

I am very grateful to Gerald Brooke and colleagues for checking distances to and from various locations for me:

By car (based on 1916 type speeds)

Yusupov Palace to Warsaw Station                  15 minutes
Warsaw Station to Sergei Alexandrovich’s palace      25 minutes
(To walk as suggested by Purishkevich as an
option)                                          50 minutes
Sergei Alexandrovich’s to Yusupov Palace            10 minutes
Yusupov Palace to Petrovsky Bridge                  30 minutes
Petrovsky Bridge to Sergei Alexandrovich’s            30 minutes+
Cab to Warsaw Station from Sergei Alexandrovich’s      25 minutes




This in fact is an over generous estimate as Purishkevich tells us that he and Lazovert returned to where Dimitry was staying, caught a cab, and at ‘already after 0500 hours paid the cabbie on the bridge by Warsaw Station.

If his timings are correct then allowing for the story that Dimitry’s car broke down a number of times between Petrovsky Bridge and Sergei’s Palace, the last time near the Peter Paul Fortress, the body would have been disposed of by 0330 hours at the latest and probably by 0300 hours.

The story of dawn approaching is another ‘red herring’ the murder occurred close to St. Petersburg shortest day; dawn would have been a long way off even at 0600 hours.

We know from Vlasuk’s evidence that Yusupov left the Palace at about 0500 hours.
I feel like one
Who treads alone
Some banquet-hall deserted,
Whose lights are fled,
Whose garlands dead,
And all, but he, departed!
Refrain:
Thus, in the stilly night,
Ere slumber’s chain hath bound me,
Sad mem’ry brings the light
Of other days around me.

Thomas Moore 1815

Offline Richard_Cullen

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Re: Rasputin show tonight
« Reply #68 on: October 20, 2005, 05:40:49 AM »
However the real timings as calculated above would mean that: (Purishkevich’s timings)

0230 hours Rasputin shot, all assemble in basement dining-room look at the body, chat, go upstairs, take the fur coat, boots etc., then put on their own coats and get into Purishkevich’s car, presumably unloading the mysterious two pood weights and chains.  Time now 0300 hrs calculated.

Drive to Warsaw Station 15 minutes, park, board the train, try to burn clothes and load Purishkevich’s car onto the train.  Say 30 minutes minimum.

Time now 0345 hrs.  Drive by cab to Sergei Alexandrovich’s Palace, 25 minutes.

Time now 0410 hrs.  Get into Dimitry’s car, load fur coat etc and drive to the Yusupov Palace.  10 minute journey, say 10 minutes for transferring to Dimitry’s car.

Time now 0430 hrs.  Arrive at Yusupov Palace, explanation about what has occurred, transfer pood weights and chains to Dimitry’s car.  Bring body up from basement and load into car.  Say minimum of 20 minutes.  

Time now 0450 hrs.  Dimitry drives slowly to the Petrovsky Bridge, 30 minutes minimum.  Dispose of body, coat, and pood weights etc.  Say 10 minutes minimum.

Time now 0530 hrs.  Dimitry’s car keeps breaking down and is repaired by Lazovert, journey time 30 minutes plus 15 minutes minimum for breakdown – total 45 minutes.

Time now 0615 hrs.  Find over shoe in Dimitry’s car, say goodbyes, call cab and return to Warsaw Station, minimum of 35 minutes.

Time is now 0700 hrs, nearly two hours after Purishkevich says he and Lazovert returned to the train.

If we were to take the timing of the ‘not to loud shots’ from Lazykov and Bobkov it would be 0730 hours before Purishkevich and Lazovert returned to the Warsaw Station.  The fact is the sequence of events and journeys as described did not take place.

Enjoy

Richard
I feel like one
Who treads alone
Some banquet-hall deserted,
Whose lights are fled,
Whose garlands dead,
And all, but he, departed!
Refrain:
Thus, in the stilly night,
Ere slumber’s chain hath bound me,
Sad mem’ry brings the light
Of other days around me.

Thomas Moore 1815

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Re: Rasputin show tonight
« Reply #69 on: October 20, 2005, 09:20:45 AM »
Richard,
I had a thought at 3am (when I do my best thinking  ;D). INSTEAD of basing your analysis on ANYTHING Y or P said, why not throw it ALL out? Start the investigation with a clean slate so to speak with what we DO know extrinsically. Rather than try to reconcile the bullet trajectories with the basement room, take the trajectories and do an analysis of how R MUST have been shot, then look for the place in the palace that fits what we know - just as an example. I think the REAL truth can be deduced that way, THEN we can look to the "traditional" stories to see what corroboration (ie: kernels of truth) lies there.

Offline Helen_Azar

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Re: Rasputin show tonight
« Reply #70 on: October 20, 2005, 10:52:25 AM »
Thanks, Richard, for all that interesting information.

Offline Richard_Cullen

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Re: Rasputin show tonight
« Reply #71 on: October 20, 2005, 02:07:43 PM »
Rob,

3am even I go to bed before that.  I don't disagree with what you say but we don't have much to go on.  Some of the things that Y and R say are the truth.  For instance we know they were at the Palace when Vlasuk visited.  We know that Y picked up R from his flat - or do we?  

All the shots could have occurred in the basement dining room, but not as Y described - the 40 degree angle of the bullet in the left front side could have been done easily if R was sitting.  It could have been done in a lot of other positions as well but not as Y described.

The problem is we have no description of the room other than that of Y and P - although they differ in detail.  Lazovert of course does provide a different story - but again it does not match the forensic facts.

I think I have said before it is easier to say what didn't happen - we can prove most of this conclusively rather than what did happen.

Professor Zharov was very interesting when we interviewed because his prime concern was to confirm that the body was Rasputin's the second to look at the injuries and the third to describe them and the cause of death, reviewing as he did Kossorotov's autopsy.  What rather surprised me was that he hadn't looked at it as an investigation as such and he the first time he says that P must have been a liar was when I questioned him about the issue.

Everyone at home and at work are fed up with my reconstructions but although it may be based on forensic intelligence I nor anyone else can precisely say what happened.

I know you think it was Dimitry although for me who did it isn't as important as who didn't do but I think Dimitry was there as an insurance to make sure no one was prosecuted.  It is all bizarre and the big questin is why come up with such a story unless it was to protect someone, ignoring the I am a hero bit that Y suffered from.  I think it was to protect the Brits who were involved.  But I don't know.

It is a pity we can't all go to St. petersburg at the same time and take some pathologists with us and work through it again and again - mind you I still don't believe we would find a conclusive answer.

I might not be around too much over the next few weeks, work is pretty heavy at the moment and off to Egypt on 31 October for a well earned holiday (Again).

But will try to get on the site a couple of times to cary on the debate

Richard





I feel like one
Who treads alone
Some banquet-hall deserted,
Whose lights are fled,
Whose garlands dead,
And all, but he, departed!
Refrain:
Thus, in the stilly night,
Ere slumber’s chain hath bound me,
Sad mem’ry brings the light
Of other days around me.

Thomas Moore 1815

Offline Richard_Cullen

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Re: Rasputin show tonight
« Reply #72 on: October 20, 2005, 02:15:34 PM »
For those of you who haven't had an opportunity to read Purishkevich's account in addition to Y's account in Lost Splendour, or 'The Man Who Killed Rasputin' I will put the numerous discrepancies I discovered but it will take a couple of uploads.

If you get bored of detail let me know.

R
I feel like one
Who treads alone
Some banquet-hall deserted,
Whose lights are fled,
Whose garlands dead,
And all, but he, departed!
Refrain:
Thus, in the stilly night,
Ere slumber’s chain hath bound me,
Sad mem’ry brings the light
Of other days around me.

Thomas Moore 1815

Offline Richard_Cullen

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Re: Rasputin show tonight
« Reply #73 on: October 20, 2005, 02:27:29 PM »
Witness            EvidenceCredibility

Yusupov Felix            Conspirator                  Perjured
Purishkevich Vladimir      Conspirator                  Perjured
Lazovert Stanislaus       Conspirator                  Doubtful
Sukhotin Lieutenant            Conspirator                  No evidence
Pavlovich Dimitry            Conspirator                  No evidence
Paleologue Maurice            French Ambassador      Hearsay
Mikhailovich Nikolai            Grand Duke                  Hearsay

Evidence as to ‘shots’ at Moika

Vlasuk Stepan            Police officer                  Good witness
Efimov Flor                  Police officer                  Good witness
Lazykov Akim            Yard keeper                  Suborned
Bobkov Ulian                  Watchman                  Suborned
Nefedov Ivan                  Batman                  Suborned

Collection of Rasputin from 64 Gorohovaya Street

Korshynov Fedor            Yard keeper                  Fair witness
Poterkina Ekaterina            Maid                        Fair witness

Recovery of Clothing etc at the Petrovsky Bridge

Kyzmin Fedor            Bridge Guard                  Good witness
Kordukov Vasily            Policeman                  Good witness
Asonov                  Police Inspector            Good witness
Mikhailov                  Police Inspector            Good witness                  
I feel like one
Who treads alone
Some banquet-hall deserted,
Whose lights are fled,
Whose garlands dead,
And all, but he, departed!
Refrain:
Thus, in the stilly night,
Ere slumber’s chain hath bound me,
Sad mem’ry brings the light
Of other days around me.

Thomas Moore 1815

Offline Richard_Cullen

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Re: Rasputin show tonight
« Reply #74 on: October 20, 2005, 02:29:56 PM »
SUMMARY OF DISCREPANCIES, INCONSISTENCIES AND IMPROBALITIES

      Maklakov consistently denied providing Yusupov with the Potassium Cyanide; Paleologue states that it was provided by a doctor friend of Yusupov from the Obukhov hospital.  

      If Felix’s wife Irina was to act as bait to entice Rasputin to the Yusupov Palace and her letter of 25 November is genuine why does Felix tell his fellow conspirators, according to Purishkevich, on 22 November that Irina will not be in St. Petersburg on 16/17 December.

      The considerable differences in the accounts of when the Petrovsky Bridge over the Malaya Nevka was identified as being suitable because of an ‘ice hole’ for the disposal of Rasputin’s body.

      Yusupov describes Dimitry and his guests arriving at the Moika Palace together.  Purishkevich elaborately describes the side gates to the yard being locked, his gaining access to through the main entrance and Yusupov scurrying away to make sure the side gates were duly opened.  Yusupov makes no mention of this.

      Ivan Nefedov tells us that Dimitry Pavlovich arrived through the front door between 2300 hours and 2400 hours on 16 December via the front door, or so he was told by Buzhinsky.

      If Grand Duke Dimitry had arrived by car why did he not leave his car in the yard of 92 Moika as it was to be used later in the night to take Rasputin’s body to the Malaya Nevka.

      The issue of the car:  Purishkevich describes his car, the painting over of his family motto – to prevent identification by police.  The car was covered as identified by Purishkevich and the witness Fedor Antonov Korshynov, who describes it as ‘a large car, it was khaki in colour, had canvas top and safety glass windows.’

      Yusupov describes the car as open, giving this as the reason that Dimitry’s closed car was used to take the body to the Malaya Nevka.

      Purishkevich says Dimitry’s car was used because the police would know it and not stop it.  He contradicts this later on by saying that Dimitry was driving slowly to avoid drawing the attention of the police to the car.

I feel like one
Who treads alone
Some banquet-hall deserted,
Whose lights are fled,
Whose garlands dead,
And all, but he, departed!
Refrain:
Thus, in the stilly night,
Ere slumber’s chain hath bound me,
Sad mem’ry brings the light
Of other days around me.

Thomas Moore 1815