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Author Topic: Richard Cullen's Documentary on Rasputin as Shown on Discovery Channel  (Read 43407 times)

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Offline Annie

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Re: Rasputin show tonight
« Reply #30 on: October 13, 2005, 06:51:19 PM »
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What, then, was Felix Yussupov's motivation for concocting such an elaborate murder story -- outright drama for drama's sake, or was he covering for someone?


I have several theories. There is proof that his mother, Zenaida, and her best friend Ella, (Alix's sister and Dmitri's aunt who practically raised him) were very much against Rasputin and had both been disowned by Alix for telling her to get rid of him. Also, Zenaida's cousin Anna Rodzianko was the wife of Michael Rodzianko (sp) who was the president of the Duma and also very anti Rasputin. So it looks to me there was a conspiracy behind the scenes as early as 1913. This is why Felix, and Dmitri, were involved.

Why did he take the blame? My guess is that he wanted the 'glory' while the real shooter, Dmitri or Raynor, did not. Also, since he never served in the military (other than that military school just for the source of a uniform as I mentioned before) I think he felt this was his duty to his country. Later on, everyone else realized it was a mistake, but he was still bragging. It was his claim to fame, especially after he lost his fortune.

Thanks Richard for coming back and posting more info!
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Offline brnbg aka: liljones1968

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Re: Rasputin show tonight
« Reply #31 on: October 13, 2005, 07:34:01 PM »
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What, then, was Felix Yussupov's motivation for concocting such an elaborate murder story -- outright drama for drama's sake, or was he covering for someone?




my guess would be both.    a cover-story for his friend (the real killer), a need to explain whatever goings-on that may have been witnessed &, in the end, his natural gravitation toward the dramatically flamboyant.


but that's just my guess.
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Offline Grigorevna

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Re: Rasputin show tonight
« Reply #32 on: October 14, 2005, 10:55:49 AM »
I really think that they fabricated the story to make the deed look more "heroic". I mean, a handful of men killing one single man wouldn't look very courageous.

But if one made up a story about a man from nether hell, who simply refused to die, a devil, the STORY would be on everyones lips, not what really happened, i.e inhuman torture and finally execution.

//Grigorevna
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Offline Richard_Cullen

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Re: Rasputin show tonight
« Reply #33 on: October 15, 2005, 08:02:20 AM »
I agree with you and Brian.  We may never know why he and P told the stories they did.  I find it hard to find a reason but the story pretty much as they both told it in their books was circulating very soon after the murder.

I think they probably sat down beforehand with the key themes of the story and then embellished it.

The problem is what bits are and are not true, we only knw the forensic bits and pieces, everything around it is still open to conjecture.

Richard
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Offline Grigorevna

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Re: Rasputin show tonight
« Reply #34 on: October 15, 2005, 09:53:03 AM »
I really wish that I will get the opportunity to watch the show... I don´t have the Discovery channel or any other satellite else, for that matter. :(

Do you know if it is sold to Europe, by any chanse...?

//Grigorevna
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Offline Richard_Cullen

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Re: Rasputin show tonight
« Reply #35 on: October 15, 2005, 10:46:34 AM »
It has been sold to lots of countries including Russia and many in the EU

Richard
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I feel like one
Who treads alone
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Whose lights are fled,
Whose garlands dead,
And all, but he, departed!
Refrain:
Thus, in the stilly night,
Ere slumber’s chain hath bound me,
Sad mem’ry brings the light
Of other days around me.

Thomas Moore 1815

Offline brnbg aka: liljones1968

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Re: Rasputin show tonight
« Reply #36 on: October 15, 2005, 10:55:57 AM »
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Certainly where I am currently re-constructing the murder it would not have been possible for Y to fire the first shot in the way he described - infact unless he was able to contort his body it is impossible.

Many who comment on the murder have never been to the Y Palace and seen how tiny that basement room is.  I was very grateful to Brian who sent me a picture of the room, believed to be circa 1916 that makes it look even more crowded.



photo, ca.1916



present-day photo of the same room, with the dubious addition of wax figures of Feliks & Grigori

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Offline Richard_Cullen

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Re: Rasputin show tonight
« Reply #37 on: October 16, 2005, 06:52:37 AM »
For those of you who have never been to the Yusupov Palace it might help to describe the room.  You should read Y's account on this site and P's book for a detailed description.

The street level windows that are referred to are on the right of the picture - above the level of the photo. They are very small.

Entry to the room is from the bottom left of the picture (this is the doorway to the staircase leading to the study and the side exit to the yard) where there is a recess type area and I presume the sofa was placed- or through arch top left wth the curtain in the 1916 picture, there is an arch bottom left.

Look how clittered the room is in the 1916 picture.  It really is a tiny, very claustrophobic room.

Y and P describe it differently - however key is the positioning of the small cabinet and the placement of the crucifix that R allegedly looks at just before Y shoots him.

Not much room to move about in, how would you conceal a gun behind your back and pour R a glass of wine as Y said he did?

Now R to do as Y said ge did must have got up and walked to the cabinet shown bottom left of the picture.

R is right handed so it is unlikely that he would have lifted his left hand to pick up or touch the crucifix but his left hand had to be raised for the left body shot to enter the body where it did and at the angle that it did 40 degrees upwards, exiting on the right side of the body at a level of the armpit equi distant between two parallel lines drawn through the centre of the nipple and the navel.

Y would have needed to be at his. Y was right handed and about 5'9 R was 5'7.  try it for your self and contortion that is impossible.

Hope you find this helpful

Richard
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I feel like one
Who treads alone
Some banquet-hall deserted,
Whose lights are fled,
Whose garlands dead,
And all, but he, departed!
Refrain:
Thus, in the stilly night,
Ere slumber’s chain hath bound me,
Sad mem’ry brings the light
Of other days around me.

Thomas Moore 1815

Offline Richard_Cullen

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Re: Rasputin show tonight
« Reply #38 on: October 16, 2005, 02:43:01 PM »
I have tried to post a diagram of the room but have failed I have asked Brian to do it for me.  When it appears I will discuss it in more detail

Richard
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I feel like one
Who treads alone
Some banquet-hall deserted,
Whose lights are fled,
Whose garlands dead,
And all, but he, departed!
Refrain:
Thus, in the stilly night,
Ere slumber’s chain hath bound me,
Sad mem’ry brings the light
Of other days around me.

Thomas Moore 1815

Offline brnbg aka: liljones1968

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Re: Rasputin show tonight
« Reply #39 on: October 17, 2005, 11:14:53 PM »
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I have tried to post a diagram of the room but have failed I have asked Brian to do it for me.  When it appears I will discuss it in more detail

Richard



and here it is (sorry it took me so long).   i'm also reposting the (ca. 1916) photo of the room.






and here are a few more present-day images of the room in question...





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"when i die, i hope i go like my grandfather --
peacefully in my sleep; not screaming & in terror,
like the passengers in his car."
-- anonymous
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Offline Richard_Cullen

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Re: Rasputin show tonight
« Reply #40 on: October 18, 2005, 09:30:47 AM »
Brian,

Thanks for putting the diagram into the theme.  What it shows is how difficult it would be for Y to enter the room with a gun concealed behind his back.  He is right handed so gun in right hand look at the two arrows A&B how did he get into the room without R seeing the gun.

How did he get to the table to get a drink and pour it for R as he said he did.  A right handed person pouring left handed does it make sense?

Just think about it, the tiny room etc.

If what Y says is right he would have shot R in the left handside and R would have fallen according to him towards Y who would have been at the bottom left of the picture where the rug is.

Unusual for someone to collapse into a shot.

Richard
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I feel like one
Who treads alone
Some banquet-hall deserted,
Whose lights are fled,
Whose garlands dead,
And all, but he, departed!
Refrain:
Thus, in the stilly night,
Ere slumber’s chain hath bound me,
Sad mem’ry brings the light
Of other days around me.

Thomas Moore 1815

Offline Sarushka

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Re: Rasputin show tonight
« Reply #41 on: October 18, 2005, 10:20:39 AM »
Am I right in assuming the entrance to the room is directly opposite the fireplace?
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Offline Richard_Cullen

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Re: Rasputin show tonight
« Reply #42 on: October 18, 2005, 01:23:17 PM »
Sarah

The answer to your question lies several entries back in this theme.

Entry to the part of the room shown is through either the archway at the top of the picture next to the waxwork of Y or through a similar arch at the bottom left of the picture.

The stairway to the landing leading to the yard door and upwards to the private study is bottomleft beyond the archway.

So far left of the photographs and put of view.

As a point of interest the waxworks both in the study and the basement dining room are showing the signs of wear badly and we had to be careful how long we kept the lights on while filming as they actually melt.

Purishkevich I observed was partocuarly cracked on the head.

Richard
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I feel like one
Who treads alone
Some banquet-hall deserted,
Whose lights are fled,
Whose garlands dead,
And all, but he, departed!
Refrain:
Thus, in the stilly night,
Ere slumber’s chain hath bound me,
Sad mem’ry brings the light
Of other days around me.

Thomas Moore 1815

Offline Richard_Cullen

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Re: Rasputin show tonight
« Reply #43 on: October 18, 2005, 01:32:25 PM »
For those detectives amongst you the room is substantially different now than it was in the circa 1916 picture.  the portrait above the fireplace is different, electric candlelights have been put either side of the fireplace.  the fireplace is original, the chairs are different.  The ornaments on the fireplace are different.  The pleasant cabinet at bottomleft in the original picture has been replace by something much bulkier and the crucifix on the cabinet in the new pictures is not what I expected.  Of course P in his account says the crucifix was on the fireplace.  Y says it was on the cabinet.

I do not take it as a given that R was sitting where he is in the set up room as it is now.

Richard
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I feel like one
Who treads alone
Some banquet-hall deserted,
Whose lights are fled,
Whose garlands dead,
And all, but he, departed!
Refrain:
Thus, in the stilly night,
Ere slumber’s chain hath bound me,
Sad mem’ry brings the light
Of other days around me.

Thomas Moore 1815

Offline Arleen

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Re: Rasputin show tonight
« Reply #44 on: October 18, 2005, 04:25:28 PM »
It is so wonderful Richard, to have you to answer questions for us!  I did not get to see the show, alas no cable, and I sorely missed seeing what everyone else did.  But I will buy the book you mentioned.

There is one question that we all want answered but I haven't seen asked as yet.  Was his penis intact or not?  The old rumors come to mind of the little old ladies in Paris guarding his severed penis with their lives......

I am greatly awaiting your paper on the subject!  

Thanks again!
Arleen
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