Author Topic: Please help identify Gendarme rank???  (Read 5274 times)

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Offline Belochka

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Please help identify Gendarme rank???
« on: October 11, 2005, 01:52:39 AM »
I have two photographs taken from recent Russian sources, which oddly provide two different dates for the same image :

1. Okhranka Vol I (2004):



2. Tainii cisk Rossii ot Zhandarmov do Chekistov (2005)



Could anyone please help in identifying the rank of the bald headed gendarme, sitting in the front row, immediately below Djunkovsky (third from the right)?

Can anyone please help identify any medals and what the circular object is - appended to the uniform adjacent to the panel of medals?

Any suggestions will be appreciated.

Thank you,

Belochka  :)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Belochka »


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Offline Belochka

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Re: Please help identify Gendarme rank???
« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2005, 02:08:37 AM »
These close-ups may be more helpful:



and this:



Thanks again for any help.  :)

Belochka
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Belochka »


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Offline Mike

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Re: Please help identify Gendarme rank???
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2005, 07:11:21 AM »
The rank is either poruchik (lieutenant) or shtab-rotmistr (captain). The only order seems to be St. Stanislav 3rd class.

Offline Vladik

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Re: Please help identify Gendarme rank???
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2005, 08:10:48 AM »
I think the guy is too old for a poruchik, so I would say he's a rotmistr, because I don't see any starson the board there, Belochka these pics are hard to date because if they were dated by the uniform there wasn't alot of changes between 1913 and 1914 so that's why the dates are confused. :)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Vlad143 »

Offline Mike

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Re: Please help identify Gendarme rank???
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2005, 08:39:50 AM »
I do see - albeit vaguely - stars on both sides of the middle strip on his right shoulder board. No stars are visible on the strip itself, but this is almost certainly due to a poor contrast. The rank of podporuchik was very rare - if at all - in the corps of gendarmes, to which officers were recruited after several years of faultless army service.

Offline Belochka

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Re: Please help identify Gendarme rank???
« Reply #5 on: October 12, 2005, 02:39:10 AM »
Thank you Mike and Vladik!  :D :D

I agree with Mike, there do appear to be stars on the right shoulder board.

Could you please remind me what those stars would designate?

What color would the boards have been?

Sadly the defintion is not good. I do have a third publication with the same photograph. Perhaps it may offer better results on magnification? If so I shall post it.

Are we agreed that the gendarme had the rank of Rotmeister?

Is there any indication as to what the object was (appended) to the right of the medals?

Your kind help again will be appreciated.  

Belochka  ;D


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Offline Mike

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Re: Please help identify Gendarme rank???
« Reply #6 on: October 12, 2005, 04:28:36 AM »
Quote
Could you please remind me what those stars would designate?
What color would the boards have been?

Three stars: poruchik (first lieutenant);
Four stars: shtab-rotmistr (captain, junior grade);
No stars: rotmistr (captain, senior grade).
The board is silver, stars are golden.

Quote
Are we agreed that the gendarme had the rank of Rotmeister?

If he indeed has stars on his boards, he is either poruchik or shtab-rotmistr.

Offline Belochka

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Re: Please help identify Gendarme rank???
« Reply #7 on: October 12, 2005, 08:11:47 AM »
This is another higher magnification. The four stars are more obvious as is that other "mystery" object adjacent to the medals.

The third reference stated the year to be 1913.



Does this help?  ???

Thanks again,

Belochka


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Offline Mike

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Re: Please help identify Gendarme rank???
« Reply #8 on: October 12, 2005, 12:42:57 PM »
Quote
that other "mystery" object adjacent to the medals.

An interesting question. It looks like a school badge, but not that of a military school (voennoye uchilische), because their badges were worn on the left side of the coat.

Three types of badges were worn on the right side, exactly as appears on the photo: those of military academies, of officer courses, and of civil schools of higher education. From the latter category we must exclude universities that had badges of a disctinctly different shape.

Of all military academies, the only likely possibility for a gendarme officer is the Alexandrovskaya Military Academy of Jurisprudence.

None of the officer courses - electrotechnical, aeronautical, logistics, Oriental - that had oval badges seems to be appropriate for our guy.

He might also be a graduate of a technical high school: Institute of railway engineers, Technological Institute, etc., all of which had oval badges worm on the right side.

Offline Belochka

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Re: Please help identify Gendarme rank???
« Reply #9 on: October 12, 2005, 09:05:00 PM »
Quote
Three types of badges were worn on the right side, exactly as appears on the photo: those of military academies, of officer courses, and of civil schools of higher education. From the latter category we must exclude universities that had badges of a disctinctly different shape.

Of all military academies, the only likely possibility for a gendarme officer is the Alexandrovskaya Military Academy of Jurisprudence.


I am more inclined to vote for the last suggestion. The gendarme was a rukovoditel' in the sisk department. Since the majority of gendarmes were seconded from and remained on the army payroll, it would be more logical that the Alexandrovskaya Military Academy of Jurisprudence would be the most appropriate qualification to possess in the Police Department at that level of authority.

Mike would you agree with this simple analogy?

Are there any images available displaying this badge in color?

Is there further information about about the Military Academy of Jurisprudence available please?

Many thanks for your continuing contributions,

Belochka  :)


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Offline Mike

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Re: Please help identify Gendarme rank???
« Reply #10 on: October 13, 2005, 04:32:56 AM »
This is the Jurisprudence Academy badge:
There were several versions, but of the same general design.

Having graduated from this academy was not uncommon among gendarme officers, so this possibility seems likely for "our" shtab-rotmist.

Offline Belochka

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Re: Please help identify Gendarme rank???
« Reply #11 on: October 13, 2005, 04:43:24 AM »
Mike your image is fantastic!! ;D

Where in St. Petersburg was the Academy located please?

Thank you very much for your generous help.

Margarita


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Offline Mike

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Re: Please help identify Gendarme rank???
« Reply #12 on: October 13, 2005, 06:00:49 AM »
Quote
Where in St. Petersburg was the Academy located please?

96, Moyka Enbankment.

Many years ago, I was compelled to spend long dull evening hours of reserve officer refreshment training in that same building, which was - and still is - housing the Military Railway Officer School.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Mike »

Offline Belochka

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Re: Please help identify Gendarme rank???
« Reply #13 on: October 13, 2005, 10:47:17 PM »
Spasibo Mike!  :D

Do you have a photograph of this building please?

Margarita


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Offline Mike

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Re: Please help identify Gendarme rank???
« Reply #14 on: October 14, 2005, 03:56:34 AM »

It's the third building from the corner, just behind the traffic signs, next door to the Yusupov Palace. It may look not too impressive from the Moyka Enb., but it's a large complex with several inner courtyards and a second entrance from Dekabristov St.