Discussions about Russian History > Russian Noble Families

Nogai  Russian Princes

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David_Pritchard:
"Raised to the dignity of Princes of the Russian Empire"  means that after the families and their territories were assimilated into the Russian Empire in the 17th century, they were accorded the status of Princes of the Russian Empire. Not all Tatar Princes were accorded this dignity. Some were simply confirmed in their status as Tatar princes which had a lower precedence in the Russian Empire. There may even have been cases in which the Tatar princes were not even recognised as princes in Romanov Russia.

Conquerers do not have to recognise the formerly ruling families if they do not want to do this. Was this not the case when the Kingdom of Hanover was annexed to Prussia? It was not until some time later that the Hanoverians were officially recognised by the Prussians with a ducal title.

By the way, I believe that the Princes Kutumov and Sheidyakov had not issue.

David

james_h:
I see what you mean about confirmed Tatar Princes. After checking my resources it appears that out of all 32 Tatar Princely Dynasties only....

Dondoltkov
Dondoukov-Karsakov
Dondoukov-Iziedinov
Mamleiev
Mestchersky
Urusov
Yusupov

Were "Raised" to the dignity of Russian Princes, alot of the others were "Confirmed Tatar Princes" but, interestingly enough I have it recorded that the following Dynasties Were neither "Raised" to the rank of Russian Princes, nor confirmed as Tatar Princes, which is odd....I'll explain why.

Kazansky former rulers of the Kingdom of Kazan
Guirey former rulers of the Kingdom of Crimea
Sibirsky former rulers of the Kingdom of Sibir

I could not find the Dynastic Surname of the Royals of Astrakhan, what was it?

Anyway none of these four dynasties were even recognised as confirmed Tatar Princes!!! Aside from being outrageous, why was this?


Questions
1. I had often heard of them (probably because htey were wealthy)  but what polity were the Mestchersky sovereign of?

2. Who were Dondoltkov, Dondoukov-Karsakov,Dondoukov-Iziedinov, Mamleiev

3. What was so important about the dynasties in question 2 that saw them accorded privileges denied to the  others?

4. It cannot be as simple as, those that joined the Russian Empire "Freely"because the Gurieli of Guria were dragged into the empire kicking and screaming, yet were still accorded the same Aristocratic style as the Bagrationi-Gruzinsky. I believe it was Serene Highness.


David_Pritchard:
So many very good questions. Let me answer a few here. The Princely Houses of Dondoltkov, Dondoukov-Karsakov, Dondoukov-Iziedinov were not Tatar but Kalmyk princes. The Princes Mamleev were Tatar and confirmed as such by the Russians. The Tatar Princes Mestchersky are descendants of Hussein Sherinsky, the 15th century Prince of Meshera.

The Princes Sibirsky were accorded the status of Princes of the Russian Empire. They were not a prolific familiy so it could be their seeming absence from society that has brought you to the conclusion that they were not recognised. The four children (all of whom seem to have had no issue) of Prince Aleksander Aleksandrovich Sibirsky (1824-1879) were the last of the family.

Best wishes,

David

David_Pritchard:
According to Dumin's book, the following 32 Tatar houses were confirmed by the Russians in the dignity of Tatar princes:

Akchurin
Bayushev
Beglideev
Bibarsov
Gedianov
Dashkin
Devletkildeev
Diveev
Engalychev
Enikeev
Ingildeev
Isheev
Keykuatov
Kildeshev
Kugushev
Kudashev
Kulunchakov
Kutkin
Kutyev
Maksutov
Mamatkazin-Sakaev
Mamatov
Mamin
Mamleev
Manstrev
Mustafin
Stokasimov
Tenishev
Chegodaev
Shakhaev
Shirinsky-Shikhmatov
Yaushev

David_Pritchard:
In the back of the book Dvoryanskie Rody Rossiiskoi Imperii, Tom IV by Stanislaw Dumin, I found the omissions for volume III. In these few pages, I found another Tatar princely family listed, that of the Princes Chanyschevy, who descend from Alun-khan and Chingis-khan. According to the note on this house, more information will be provided in volume V (which has been completed but not yet sent to the printer).

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