Author Topic: Why Was AA Afraid To Be Found?  (Read 9827 times)

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Offline AGRBear

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Re: Why Was AA Afraid To Be Found?
« Reply #15 on: October 24, 2005, 02:44:19 PM »
As to AA being frighten for her life after jumping into the canal in an apparent attempt of sucide,  this is easily explained.  If AA was trying to comment sucide earlier,  this doesn't mean she wanted to die after her rescue.  From what I understand,  the majority of people who make the attempt don't  intend to really die.  They hope someone loves them enough to come and stop them.   I've heard it's a "cry for help" for most.  Of course,  there are always the acceptions.

Ooooooh dear,  I accidently erased some of this post.

I was talking about  "being out of the box" and the possibility of AA being a CHEKA agent.  I'll have to repost this thought.  Be right back.

I said something about one of the reasons why I was thinking it was possible that AA was an agent was because of some of the information she knew which only higher officals knew and not just the favorite color of one of the Grand Duchesses.

I talked about the TRUST and that Stalin had wanted Reilly so badly that he had Reilly arrested outside of Moscow which was suppose to have been a secret and  this proved Reilly was right abut the TRUST being a front for the Bolsheviks.  And, Stalin told the leader of the CHEKA to call certain agents back to Russia.  And, this is the amazing part,  told the CHEKA leader to arrest and shot these certain agents.

Maybe,  AA realized that she had but two avenues to take (1) remain a claimant, or, (2) leave her position and return to the party "cell",  sent to Russia where she'd be arrested and shot.  She chose to reamin a claimant if she had to fly solo.

Being a clever girl,  she never gave up her role as claimant even at death.

I probably forgot somthing but that's all I recall at the moment..

Sorry.

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« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by AGRBear »
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Offline Louis_Charles

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Re: Why Was AA Afraid To Be Found?
« Reply #16 on: October 24, 2005, 03:08:17 PM »
During the early to mid-1920s, people were actually kidnapped, brought back to Russia and killed. I think the problem with Anna Andersen as a CHEKA agent (or any other kind of Bolshevik organization) is that she herself called attention to the resemblance to Anastasia, and then lived as the Grand Duchess for the rest of her life. Surely if she was a renegade agent her best bet would have been to have disappeared, i.e. NOT to have called attention to herself.

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Offline ConstanceMarie

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Re: Why Was AA Afraid To Be Found?
« Reply #17 on: October 24, 2005, 04:59:54 PM »
Maybe she was afraid Grossman was going to kill her and eat her!

Offline AGRBear

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Re: Why Was AA Afraid To Be Found?
« Reply #18 on: October 24, 2005, 05:12:08 PM »
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Maybe she was afraid Grossman was going to kill her and eat her!


The Berlin police did tell the family in 1921 that FS was murdered by Grossmann on 13 Aug 1920.  And, yes, as gruesome as it sounds,  Grossmann sold the meat of his victims to the starving people living in Berlin at that time.

AA jumped into the canal in Feb. of 1920.

If you meant to be funny,  I'm sorry,  I didn't find any humor it your post.  

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« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by AGRBear »
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Offline RealAnastasia

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Re: Why Was AA Afraid To Be Found?
« Reply #19 on: October 24, 2005, 09:58:21 PM »
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The Berlin police did tell the family in 1921 that FS was murdered by Grossmann on 13 Aug 1920.  And, yes, as gruesome as it sounds,  Grossmann sold the meat of his victims to the starving people living in Berlin at that time.

AA jumped into the canal in Feb. of 1920.

If you meant to be funny,  I'm sorry,  I didn't find any humor it your post.  Sorry.

AGRBear



Does anybody noticed that what Grossman was selling was human meat? I know this is an awful question but I'm curious to know if people may have suspected that they were eating human meat. How they found that he was a serial murder?  ???

RealAnastasia.

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Re: Why Was AA Afraid To Be Found?
« Reply #20 on: October 25, 2005, 08:37:00 AM »
I posted the short article about him under the thread about if FS was murdered by Grossmann.  

Since the questioned was asked here,  I'll make a short responce.

Evidently,  the people of Berlin were starving.  All the usual meat, such as beef and pig and lamb was gone.  Next came the odd smelling meat of horse, dog and cats....  No  longer did anyone asked what kind of meat was in the meat cart.

The article tells us:
>>...In Aug 1921 the owner of a top-storey flat in Berlin near the Silesian railway terminus heard sounds of a struggle coming from the kitchen and called the police.  They found on Grossmann's kitchen bed (a camp bed) the trussed-up carcass of a recently killed girl, tied as if ready for butchering.<<
pps. 243-44  Encyclopedia of Murder by Wilson and Pitman, 1962 Edition.
>>At the time of his arrest, evidence was found which indicated that three women had been killed and dismembered in the past three weeks.<<   No one knows how many women Grossmann killed.  He was in business of selling of "meat" throughout the war.

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« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by AGRBear »
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Offline AGRBear

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Re: Why Was AA Afraid To Be Found?
« Reply #21 on: October 25, 2005, 09:16:15 AM »
Quote


Of course, a reasonable explanation for this could be one of the following:

(1) They --- the dastardly Bolsheviks, CHEKA, Soviets --- knew that Anna Andersen was not the Grand Duchess Anastasia, and therefore left her alone because of the dissension she sowed within the emigre community.


If AA was a Soviet agent placed into position by the CHEKA,  Lenin and or Stalin may not have known about it.  I believe the CHEKA leader Feliks Dzerzhinskii was on his own until Stalin finally felt powerful enough to pull in Felik's reins.

AA could have been a German agent just as easily.  There were many Germans who had been working in Russia as teachers,  nannies, companions in the upper circles and who returned to Germany due to their patriotic sense of duty to the Fatherland.  But I think it's unlikely since there were too many things going on already between the two countries.  And,  the Germans were cousins and knew what was occuring within the family without the use of agents.  There were the Germans who were Leninites [future communist] who were linked to the Soviet party lines....

Quote
(2) They --- the dastardly Bolsheviks, CHEKA, Soviets --- were unable to kill this one woman, despite the fact that she spent most her time in vulnerable places like asylums or apartments in big cities (New York, Berlin). But despite their incredible abilities for evil, which allowed them to murder untold millions of Whites, kulaks, and God knows how many others, they were unable to kill Anna Andersen because of her . . . luck? Skill? You imply that if the Bolsheviks  believed she was the Grand Duchess Anastasia, then wouldn't they have been trying to kill her? Of course, they knew Olga Alexandrovna, Ksenia Alexandrovna, Nicholas Nicholaievitch and various other surviving Grand Dukes and Duchesses actually were who they said they were, and all of them died in their beds, so perhaps Anna's fear was a little, um . . . theatrical. Except for the highly suspect account of Felix Yussoupov trying to kill her given in the highly suspect Lovell book, is there evidence that attempts were made upon Andersen's life? Ever?


Yes,  you are right,  if the CHEKA wanted AA dead,  the task would have been easily done.  And,  it wasn't.  So, maybe,  she continued to be one of Feliks Dzerzhinskii's little secrets he kept from Lenin and Stalin.  Afterall,  it was the CHEKA,  who may have failed to have killed the real GD Anastasia in Ekaterinburg,  and they were still looking for the real GD Anastasia in the 1920s.

Where did the real GD Anasasia go if she did escape?   Ahhh, yes,  the question to which no one seems to know the answer.  Those who may have known,  may have taken this secret to their grave.


Quote
(3) During the visits to the gravesite about which you speculate, the bodies of Alexei and Anastasia may have been discovered and removed. Why not? It is not only the daughter of the Tsar that is missing, it is a son, and no one has credibly claimed to be him.


There are several interesting rumors I've heard but no evidence any of them are true.

Summers and Mangold talk in great lenth about the possibility that Alexandra and her daughters might have been in Perm and that one of them, Anastasia, had escaped.

There was another story taken down by one of the investigataors about Anastasia and Alexis being found by soldiers whom the story tellers/ witnesses  assumed were Reds who took them away in a carriage.

Quote
And finally, and I am sorry to say it, but the overwhelming image one gets of the terribles times suffered by Anna Andersen is that they were self-imposed. She bit more hands that fed her than a junkyard dog. I know she suffered physical illness, and I exclude that, but look at the list of people that she took charity from and then rejected.

Simon


If AA was not GD Anastasia,  her difficulties were mutiple.

(1) AA may have been suffering from anxiety of being discovered by the Romanovs as being a fake.  

(2) AA may have, also,  been suffering from anxiety of having lost her CHEKA connections and having to continue on her own

(3)  AA may have been fallen into real depression due to all the unknowns of which  we may know absolutely nothing and all these unknowns could cover lost of contact with her family, like a child,  deaths in her family or a lover.  The play acting and the real medical depression caused by all her anxieties alll tumbled into one....

(4)  Also, AA was  pyscially ill with tb and whatever else she had, probably lack of a good diet

(5)  the list could go on and on.....

AA's habit of biting the hand that fed her in the early years may have been because she was feeling too comfortable and her mask was slipping, so,  she had to remove herself and go elsewhere so she would remain sharp and on her guard....

I don't know enough of her life so this is just a general feeling I've gotten from what I have read.   I'll have to rely on others who seem to know AA's life down to every minute of her life after she jumped into the canal in Feb. of 1920.

AGRBear
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by AGRBear »
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Offline etonexile

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Re: Why Was AA Afraid To Be Found?
« Reply #22 on: October 25, 2005, 07:10:49 PM »


As it is,  only nine bodies were found in the mass grave in Pig's Meadow.

Two bodies are still missing.

One of them is the daughter of Nicholas II.

AGRBear[/quote]

Reality check with AGRBear....You know that 4(did I say 4?...as in...4?) international,independant DNA testing labs stated that AA...<<<((("WAS NOT")))>>>...related to known members of the IF...and was nearly 100% certainly related to the Polish peasant family of FS....Are we together here...a tad bit?...?

Offline Louis_Charles

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Re: Why Was AA Afraid To Be Found?
« Reply #23 on: October 25, 2005, 10:34:54 PM »
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If AA was a Soviet agent placed into position by the CHEKA,  Lenin and or Stalin may not have known about it.  I believe the CHEKA leader Feliks Dzerzhinskii was on his own until Stalin finally felt powerful enough to pull in Felik's reins.

AA could have been a German agent just as easily.  There were many Germans who had been working in Russia as teachers,  nannies, companions in the upper circles and who returned to Germany due to their patriotic sense of duty to the Fatherland.  But I think it's unlikely since there were too many things going on already between the two countries.  And,  the Germans were cousins and knew what was occuring within the family without the use of agents.  There were the Germans who were Leninites [future communist] who were linked to the Soviet party lines....


Yes,  you are right,  if the CHEKA wanted AA dead,  the task would have been easily done.  And,  it wasn't.  So, maybe,  she continued to be one of Feliks Dzerzhinskii's little secrets he kept from Lenin and Stalin.  Afterall,  it was the CHEKA,  who may have failed to have killed the real GD Anastasia in Ekaterinburg,  and they were still looking for the real GD Anastasia in the 1920s.

Where did the real GD Anasasia go if she did escape?   Ahhh, yes,  the question to which no one seems to know the answer.  Those who may have known,  may have taken this secret to their grave.



There are several interesting rumors I've heard but no evidence any of them are true.

Summers and Mangold talk in great lenth about the possibility that Alexandra and her daughters might have been in Perm and that one of them, Anastasia, had escaped.

There was another story taken down by one of the investigataors about Anastasia and Alexis being found by soldiers whom the story tellers/ witnesses  assumed were Reds who took them away in a carriage.


If AA was not GD Anastasia,  her difficulties were mutiple.

 (1) AA may have been suffering from anxiety of being discovered by the Romanovs as being a fake.  

(2) AA may have, also,  been suffering from anxiety of having lost her CHEKA connections and having to continue on her own

(3)  AA may have been fallen into real depression due to all the unknowns of which  we may know absolutely nothing and all these unknowns could cover lost of contact with her family, like a child,  deaths in her family or a lover.  The play acting and the real medical depression caused by all her anxieties alll tumbled into one....

(4)  Also, AA was  pyscially ill with tb and whatever else she had, probably lack of a good diet

(5)  the list could go on and on.....

AA's habit of biting the hand that fed her in the early years may have been because she was feeling too comfortable and her mask was slipping, so,  she had to remove herself and go elsewhere so she would remain sharp and on her guard....

I don't know enough of her life so this is just a general feeling I've gotten from what I have read.   I'll have to rely on others who seem to know AA's life down to every minute of her life after she jumped into the canal in Feb. of 1920.

AGRBear



In no particular order:

(1) The Perm stories in Summers and Mangold are discredited. You would have to disregard every bit of testimony concerning the executions in Ekaterinburg. The bodies would have had to be transported back to the grave of Nicholas, Trupp, Kharitonov, Demidova and Botkin --- and Alexei and Anastasia would still be missing. The File on the Tsar has moments of insight, but there is no evidence that supports the Perm story other than hearsay, and a great deal of forensic eveidence that supports the idea that the Imperial Family was, in fact, massacred on July 16, 1918.

(2) The "biting the hand that fed her" behavior was not limited to the early years of Andersen's impersonation. It was a pattern of a lifetime, and continued until she went to Charlottesville in 1969. A case could be made that her treatment of Jack Manahan made him her last victim, but she was also nasty to people like Prince Frederick and others. To be fair, these continued to support her claims. But she treated them badly.

(3) The idea that she was a CHEKA agent who couldn't come in from the cold is too silly to take seriously, as is the idea that "independent" operations could be run at the level of her impersonation. Both Lenin and Stalin were perfectly aware of her claims --- you hardly needed a secret service to be aware of them --- and if she was either a rogue agent or a double agent, they would have dealt with her. I think it most likely that they let her be because a) it was known that she wasn't a Grand Duchess and b) it created dissension within the emigre community, and that would have pleased the communist government.

(4) The idea that her depression was severe enough to blend into her playacting and create a worldview in which she actually believed she was Anastasia is interesting. Was she treated for depression at Dalldorf?

(5) Suicidal people will sometimes keep attempting the act until they are successful. There is no one reaction to it.

(6) In fact, I don't think Anna Andersen was afraid to be found. I think she wanted to be found. In the end, she was the one who pushed the identification of herself as Grand Duchess Anastasia by pointing out her resemblance to the real girl pictured in the magazines at Dalldorf. This information is in Kurth. Andersen asked the night nurse at the sanatorium if, in fact, she didn't notice the resemblance. She supplied the correct name when asked whether she was Tatiana by striking out all of her sisters' names on a list. Far from avoiding publicity, she allowed herself to be exploited by people like Gleb Botkin (even granting that he truly believed in Andersen, Botkin pushed the envelope by his open letter of attack upon those Romanovs that did not).

(7) I agree that she may have indeed suffered from the anxiety that the Romanovs would prove she was a fake.

But in the end, I don't think she was afraid to be found. And remember, thereafter this woman never had to hold a job in her life. If you were originally a factory worker, you are then elevated to a life beyond your wildest imagination.

Simon
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Re: Why Was AA Afraid To Be Found?
« Reply #24 on: October 26, 2005, 07:01:20 AM »
Bravo, Simon.  Well thought out, well reasoned and very logical.  I, too, threw out Summers and Mangold long ago.  It's too bad the only available English edition of the Sokolov is incomplete and suffers from the bias of its editors...

Offline AGRBear

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Re: Why Was AA Afraid To Be Found?
« Reply #25 on: October 26, 2005, 10:07:41 AM »
Quote


In no particular order:

(1) The Perm stories in Summers and Mangold are discredited. You would have to disregard every bit of testimony concerning the executions in Ekaterinburg. The bodies would have had to be transported back to the grave of Nicholas, Trupp, Kharitonov, Demidova and Botkin --- and Alexei and Anastasia would still be missing. The File on the Tsar has moments of insight, but there is no evidence that supports the Perm story other than hearsay, and a great deal of forensic eveidence that supports the idea that the Imperial Family was, in fact, massacred on July 16, 1918.


The Perm stories have not been discredited.  What has occured is that people have set these testimonies aside.

Greg King wrote in a post which I'll have to find said that he and Penny didn't find information which they found interesting enough to follow.  Like others,  it was their opinion at the time he wrote the post and the book that there were no survivors.  However, they did include the fact that Anastasia may have survived for a time but not Alexei.   [Note: It's been too long since I read these posts so I may not remember this as accurately as I should.]

Most posters here think that an escape was impossible because they lean so heavily on Yurovsky, Ermakov and the other men who were the shooters of  Nicholas II and at least eight others who were found in the mass grave in Pig's Meadow.

My clue is based a geat deal on the lack of bones which should have been in the grave but were not.  Indicating to me that this was not the original  grave for some.

Since most of these testimonies as well as evidence was destroyed not just by the Reds, it was also destroyed by the Whites, including men like Gilliard who admitted in AA's trial that he had destroyed important information/evidence.  

The reason I have to depend so much on the outdated book of Summers and Mangold is because they are the only ones who dug into the testimonies which are still in existence and placed them in a book I have read.   As far as I know,  they did not fabricate the testimonies they entered into their book.

Quote
(2) The "biting the hand that fed her" behavior was not limited to the early years of Andersen's impersonation. It was a pattern of a lifetime, and continued until she went to Charlottesville in 1969. A case could be made that her treatment of Jack Manahan made him her last victim, but she was also nasty to people like Prince Frederick and others. To be fair, these continued to support her claims. But she treated them badly.


Like I said,  I'll have to let others who know more about AA's life to make comments.

Quote
(3) The idea that she was a CHEKA agent who couldn't come in from the cold is too silly to take seriously, as is the idea that "independent" operations could be run at the level of her impersonation. Both Lenin and Stalin were perfectly aware of her claims --- you hardly needed a secret service to be aware of them --- and if she was either a rogue agent or a double agent, they would have dealt with her. I think it most likely that they let her be because a) it was known that she wasn't a Grand Duchess and b) it created dissension within the emigre community, and that would have pleased the communist government.


This is just a "out of the box" speculation and needs to be suggested and investigated to see just how "silly" or "impossible" this could have been.

I'm not sure how many of you understand how entangled Felik D., the head of the CHEKA's, agents were in Europe.   These agents had worked their way into very high positions even in the British SIS as well as their world of politics.

Lenin and Stalin in those early years had given Felik D. freedom with his agents, including the organizations called TRUST, the Lysma and other revolutionary "cells" [groups].

It was not uncommon for revolutionaries to infiltrate the factories like the one AA, if she was FS,  was working.  

Lenin and Stalin may not have known about  AA and the reason behind the need of creating a false GD Anastasia.

Like the woman in  My Fair Lady,  AA  must have had gone through a period of training to become a GD Anastasia claimant.  Why?  There was a great deal a commoner had to learn about being royal, Russian and enough of the various languages (High German, French, Enlgish and Russian) to fool people  who knew the GD.

Quote
(4) The idea that her depression was severe enough to blend into her playacting and create a worldview in which she actually believed she was Anastasia is interesting. Was she treated for depression at Dalldorf?


Again,  I'll have to let others answer this because I don't recall this part of AA's life.

Quote
(5) Suicidal people will sometimes keep attempting the act until they are successful. There is no one reaction to it.


Like I said,  there are always the acceptions.

I think on one of these threads,  people thought that some of the scars AA had were self inflicted.

I don't know.

Quote
(6) In fact, I don't think Anna Andersen was afraid to be found. I think she wanted to be found. In the end, she was the one who pushed the identification of herself as Grand Duchess Anastasia by pointing out her resemblance to the real girl pictured in the magazines at Dalldorf. This information is in Kurth. Andersen asked the night nurse at the sanatorium if, in fact, she didn't notice the resemblance. She supplied the correct name when asked whether she was Tatiana by striking out all of her sisters' names on a list. Far from avoiding publicity, she allowed herself to be exploited by people like Gleb Botkin (even granting that he truly believed in Andersen, Botkin pushed the envelope by his open letter of attack upon those Romanovs that did not).


My suggestions were possible reasons she may have been afraid if she was GD Anastasis  or  FS or AA  (if she was not FS).

Quote
(7) I agree that she may have indeed suffered from the anxiety that the Romanovs would prove she was a fake.

But in the end, I don't think she was afraid to be found. And remember, thereafter this woman never had to hold a job in her life. If you were originally a factory worker, you are then elevated to a life beyond your wildest imagination.

Simon


Since I'm not sure, yet,  that AA was FS,  then  I really can't respond to your question, accept to say,  whomever she was,  anxiety had to have raised it's ugly head and could have caused all kinds of mental problems,  one of which, I think, was probably depression.

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« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by AGRBear »
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Offline Louis_Charles

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Re: Why Was AA Afraid To Be Found?
« Reply #26 on: October 26, 2005, 10:48:05 AM »
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Lenin and Stalin may not have known about  AA and the reason behind the need of creating a false GD Anastasia.
.

Speculation is fun, but this flies in the face of everything we know about either of these men. A major operation involving a "survivor" of the execution was being run, and it not have their approval?

As far as the Perm stories are concerned, take a look at the copywright date on The File on the Tsar. The bodies had not been found. And I am not implying that Summers and Mangold fabricated the evidence. I think they successfully tracked down rumors about the survival of the family, and reported them. But there were also other rumors reported in the book. They thought that there was more credibility to the Perm stories, but they always qualified them with the proviso that none of them had been demonstrated to be true. The actual bodies in the actual grave argue against the Perm story, no matter how many bones are missing ---- can you give a possible explanation as to why the women would have been carted back to Ekaterinburg to be either buried or shot? I really think the point of the grave was that it wouldn't be found, so why go to the extra trouble?


Simon
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Offline Annie

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Re: Why Was AA Afraid To Be Found?
« Reply #27 on: October 26, 2005, 11:04:57 AM »
Like I've said before, I was a high school freshman when "File on the Tsar" came out, but even then I didn't buy into it. I also don't think they 'lied' but assumed much and played it as the truth when really, it was not, and never was.

As far as the Perm stories, it has been posted here, even by FA, what was behind that. There was some part of the peace plan between Germany and Russia that ended the war for Russia that stated the "Princesses of German blood" (Alix and OTMA) be delivered safely into German hands. By the time those who killed them found out about this, it was too late, so they had to plant rumors that they were still alive in order to not get the blame and risk the fragile new peace. They spread rumors they were seen in Perm, and people believed them, and even to this day some still use this as 'evidence' of their 'escape' when really, it never happened!

Don't think this is preposterous, there is a precedent. Read the memoirs of one of the Bolsheviks responsible for the pit executions of Ella, the KR sons, Paley and Segei Mikhailovich, in the book "Nicholas and Alexandra, a Lifelong Passion." He says in so many words after they did their deed, they ran back to the town and tolled the bell, announcing the prisoners had been taken away by 'unknown persons' in the night! This was to get the blame off their backs if the approaching White army caught them and tried to seek revenge for the killings. They DID plant false stories to throw off the trial and absolve themselves of guilt and its consequences. Perm was another example of that happening.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Annie »

Offline Helen_Azar

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Re: Why Was AA Afraid To Be Found?
« Reply #28 on: October 26, 2005, 11:08:28 AM »
Quote

 They spread rumors they were seen in Perm, and people believed them, and even to this day some still use this as 'evidence' of their 'escape' when really, it never happened! Don't think this is preposterous, there is a precedent.


Elvis was/is often seen all over the world*. It doesn't mean that he was/is still alive...

*P.S. So are UFOs.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by helenazar »

Offline AGRBear

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Re: Why Was AA Afraid To Be Found?
« Reply #29 on: October 26, 2005, 12:01:35 PM »
There are answers given by myself and others already on other threads about Perm, mass grave in Pig's Meadow and the missing bones. I will, when I have time,  placed here the different URLs [threads].  We can carry these conversations back to the threads they belong.

I believe this thread is about why or even  if AA was fearful for her life.

I think that she could have been for different reasons and each reason depended upon who or what she was.

If she was AA or FS or GD Anastasia there would have been different reasons.   Although I don't think she was the GD, some people who post do, so I thought to make comments on all three or two [if AA was FS].

AGRBear

(1) Missing Bodies - http://hydrogen.pallasweb.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=lastdays;action=display;num=1102980672;start=0#0
(2) Pig's Meadows Grave Questioins - http://hydrogen.pallasweb.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=lastdays;action=display;num=1106871065;start=0#0
(3) Questions About Testimonies of Yurovsky's & Others - http://hydrogen.pallasweb.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=lastdays;action=display;num=1106530719;start=0#0
(4) Why Did They Killed Them? - http://hydrogen.pallasweb.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=lastdays;action=display;num=1102903170;start=0#0
(5)  Did Any of the Romanovs Survive? - http://hydrogen.pallasweb.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=anastasia;action=display;num=1074956237;start=0#0
(6) The Perm Story - http://hydrogen.pallasweb.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=anastasia;action=display;num=1113068456;start=0#0
(7) Testimonies of Sightings After 16 July 1918 - http://hydrogen.pallasweb.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=anastasia;action=display;num=1091994509;start=0
(8 ) AA Scars Self Inflicted? - http://hydrogen.pallasweb.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=anastasia;action=display;num=1114803266
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by AGRBear »
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152