Author Topic: Lady Margaret Douglas, Countess of Lennox  (Read 44787 times)

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Offline Eric_Lowe

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Margaret, Countess of Lennox
« Reply #75 on: July 16, 2007, 04:05:49 AM »
I am always interested in this obsure royal. daughter of Margaret Tudor, Dowager Queen of Scotland and a Scottish subject. She literally grew up in her uncle's court in England. She was close to her cousins (Mary Tudor was one of them). Tried to marry for love but failed (end up in the Tower). She later accepted an arranged marriage and gave birth to Lord Darney (who married Mary, Queen of Scots). I often wondered what history would look under her eyes. Both biographers and fiction writers passed her by. I would love to know more about her.  ;)

Offline bell_the_cat

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Re: Margaret, Countess of Lennox,
« Reply #76 on: July 16, 2007, 03:25:08 PM »
A similar thing happened to Margaret's granddaughter, Arabella Stuart, who many thought should have inherited the Earldom of Lennox from her father. However, the title reverted to her cousin, King James, who proceeded to confer it on one of his favourites!
Never put off until tomorrow what you can put off until the day after tomorrow. (Mark Twain)

Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Margaret, Countess of Lennox,
« Reply #77 on: July 16, 2007, 07:45:46 PM »
I think a book should be written about her.  ;)

Offline bell_the_cat

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Re: Margaret, Countess of Lennox,
« Reply #78 on: September 19, 2007, 05:07:17 PM »
I read an interesting letter in the Times this week about this very subject. Until 1707 there was a law in Scotland that allowed a nobleman to disinherit his successor. It was calle "Renunciation and Regrant" if I remember correctly. The nobleman would renounce his title and it would be regranted by the monarch with the condition that it would be inherited by the preferred heir. I wonder if this was the device used by the Earl of Angus to disinherit his daughter.

It could go wrong however - sometimes the monarch saw fit to regrant the title with inheritance rights to his own preferred candidate.
Never put off until tomorrow what you can put off until the day after tomorrow. (Mark Twain)

Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Margaret, Countess of Lennox,
« Reply #79 on: September 19, 2007, 08:48:05 PM »
Well...It has to be done with Caution. Like The Queen cannot disinheit Charles... ;)

Offline bell_the_cat

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Re: Margaret, Countess of Lennox,
« Reply #80 on: September 20, 2007, 02:57:09 PM »
I t certainly introduced an element of meritocracy into the system! :)
Never put off until tomorrow what you can put off until the day after tomorrow. (Mark Twain)

Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Margaret, Countess of Lennox,
« Reply #81 on: September 21, 2007, 03:32:12 AM »
A kind of disturbance to the rule... ???

Offline bell_the_cat

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Re: Margaret, Countess of Lennox,
« Reply #82 on: September 21, 2007, 06:28:24 PM »
But it was a good idea - if you had an idiot elder son, you could disinherit him in favour of the second son for example!
Never put off until tomorrow what you can put off until the day after tomorrow. (Mark Twain)

Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Margaret, Countess of Lennox,
« Reply #83 on: September 24, 2007, 04:26:45 AM »
Not a good idea to tamper with the successtion.  :o

Offline bell_the_cat

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Re: Margaret, Countess of Lennox,
« Reply #84 on: September 25, 2007, 06:12:49 PM »
Why not?
Never put off until tomorrow what you can put off until the day after tomorrow. (Mark Twain)

Offline dmitri

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Re: Margaret, Countess of Lennox,
« Reply #85 on: September 25, 2007, 07:37:51 PM »
The monarchy only survives if the incumbent is worthy. The current incumbent is but the immediate successor is not. There is a need to skip a generation.

Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Margaret, Countess of Lennox,
« Reply #86 on: September 26, 2007, 10:18:18 PM »
If these things happen too frequent, the succession would have meant nothing. Just look at the monarchy in Nepal...it is in tatters. If such a thing is allowed, The Queen would have jumped Charles to William. A lot of them still expect that to happen... :(

Offline Velasco

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Re: Lady Margaret Douglas, Countess of Lennox
« Reply #87 on: September 16, 2010, 06:48:21 AM »
I wonder why Henry VIII didn't arrange a good marriage for her? Maybe even with his nephew Henry Brandon, Earl of Lincoln...The whole Howard affair indicates he was quite aware of Margaret's value as a bride and potential heiress to his throne...

Offline mcdnab

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Re: Lady Margaret Douglas, Countess of Lennox
« Reply #88 on: September 16, 2010, 08:12:42 AM »
Henry VII was very aware that in default of his son's line that Margaret's descendants might inherit - he said it didn't matter because the "greater would swallow the smaller" - ie England being richer and more populous would be the dominant partner in any personal union.

Henry VIII's relationship with Margaret's mother was in permanent strain - he continually failed to head her requests for help to retain and regain the regency of Scotland, he preffered instead to listen to both her second and third husbands, failed to understand he reasons for coming to terms with Hamilton (who was seen as pro-french and anti-english), he also ironically believed that her marital traumas were shaming to the whole family. Margaret Tudor was a living example of the adage marry in haste and repent at leisure (something her granddaughter Mary Stuart should have remembered !)
It is hardly surprising that Henry did exclude her descendants from the succession - whilst the young Margaret Douglas was popular with her Uncle her early amorous adventures helped put an end to that and probably contributed to her exclusion from his will. Her eventual marriage was a political one but was seen as a reward to Lennox for his pro-english stance following the death of James V.
Margaret should have at least inherited a portion of her father's estate and she was still making a deal of it decades later.
The Lennox Hamilton rivalry dominates 16th Century Scotland - their claims had nothing to do with unequal marriages many Scots Queen's up to the 16th Century were not of Royal Birth.

Hamilton line:
James II - Mary Stewart married secondly James 1st Lord Hamilton - James Hamilton 1st Earl of Arran - marred 1) Elizabeth Home (divorced 1506 when it was discovered that her first husband was still living) 2) Janet Beaton - James Second Earl of Arran and Duke of Chatelherault. Heir to the throne of Scotland 1542.
Lennox line: James II - Mary Stewart married secondly James 1st Lord Hamilton - Elizabeth Hamilton married Mathew Stewart Earl of Lennox - John 3rd Earl of Lennox - Matthew 4th Earl of Lennox  married Lady Margaret Douglas.

The dispute centred on the legality of the 1st Earl of Arran's marriage to Janet Beaton. They were also rivals in the Clydesdale area and Glasgow which made matters worse.

Margaret remained close to Mary Tudor, her cousin throughout her life and indeed she was well treated by her and often given precedent over Elizabeth Tudor during Mary's reign. At Elizabeth's accession she retired from court to her home in Yorkshire - she was an intelligent woman and doted on her sons - in fact many people believe that had Elizabeth allowed her to travel north to join her husband she might have been able to keep Darnley in check.
Darnley in fairness was a teenager when he went North and Mary fell for him - not surprising that at his first taste of real freedom he went off the rails.
Margaret was pretty well treated by Elizabeth, despite her religion, and incarceration in the tower was a bit of an occupational hazard for people of her rank and closeness to the throne and she wasn't above intrigue

Offline CountessKate

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Re: Lady Margaret Douglas, Countess of Lennox
« Reply #89 on: April 26, 2011, 08:08:53 AM »
I am always interested in this obsure royal. daughter of Margaret Tudor, Dowager Queen of Scotland and a Scottish subject. She literally grew up in her uncle's court in England. She was close to her cousins (Mary Tudor was one of them). Tried to marry for love but failed (end up in the Tower). She later accepted an arranged marriage and gave birth to Lord Darney (who married Mary, Queen of Scots). I often wondered what history would look under her eyes. Both biographers and fiction writers passed her by. I would love to know more about her.  ;)

In fiction, she features heavily in several of Dorothy Dunnett's 'Lymond Chronicles', as the chief villainess in fact.