Author Topic: Grand Duchess and other possible suitors - what if..  (Read 101637 times)

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Offline Olga Maria

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Re: Grand Duchess and other possible suitors - what if..
« Reply #270 on: October 29, 2013, 02:31:56 AM »


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I think Ella would have become a bridge between Willy & Vicky like what her sister Irene did with her husband Henry & Vicky.
Hmm, so Ella could have been a solution. But the possibility of being a hemophilia carrier outweighed that advantage so for Vicky, it was still a no.

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What is more important is that had Ella not married into Russia, then there would not have been a Nicky-Alicky Romance.
Indeed, this could have been the biggest consequence which thankfully didn't happen (w/out Nicky & Alix, I wouldn't have met them).

LOL, I sound like I am pro-Willy Ella, right? Actually I'm pro-Serge & Ella (I think Serge is the one who needs to have  a wife like Ella). But I am a fan of this story of Willy's unrequited love for her.

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Yes. I agree it was Ella's mother instincts that to help Serge that made her fall for him. In a queer way, Alicky felt the same for Nicky too.
I noticed this, too - I think they were taught to have that instinct in relating with others. Both sisters have shown that to all people they think who need help.

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Offline Janet Ashton

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Re: Grand Duchess and other possible suitors - what if..
« Reply #271 on: October 29, 2013, 08:07:05 AM »
The 2-volume book on Wilson is C.E. Callwell: The Life and Diaries of Field Marshal Sir Henry Wilson , 1927.

Of course, Alexandra could have been watching the tennis parties.

Ann

Have now got the book here. He does indeed say that he reminded Alexnadra of the "tennis parties" explicitly, and says that "I used to play tennis with her and her sisters". So even at 11 A. was taking part with the older ones - assume these would then have been fairly informal gatherings. No mention of her being spoiled or lazy!

The editor Callwell adds in the introduction that Wilson "spent many hours which should have been devoted to study" with the young princeses. He doesn't quote the phrase about Ella being the most beautiful creature of God which Mager quotes in his bio, so don't know where that came from, but he does say that Wilson was "great friends" with "the little girl" Princess Alix, as he had a fondness for children.

I could probably track more info down about his feelings for Ella if I went looking in the fairly numerous books which feature Henry Wilson, but it's a bit of a distraction - at least we have established that he did seem to know her, despite their different backgrounds. Calwell says it was "through introductions."
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Offline Kalafrana

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Re: Grand Duchess and other possible suitors - what if..
« Reply #272 on: October 29, 2013, 09:04:04 AM »
The Jeffery biography concentrates on Wilson's military career, and passes over his time in Darmstadt in one sentence. It does say that Wilson liked children and was good with them, though he and his wife didn't produce any.

Wilson crops up in a lot of books about high command in the First World War, and was a controversial figure then and now. He had a far from unjustified reputation as an intriguer.

Ann

Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Grand Duchess and other possible suitors - what if..
« Reply #273 on: October 29, 2013, 10:55:11 AM »
In retrospect I don't think Ella made a much better match with Serge than Willy. Both men are flawed and her life would not have been true bliss (unlike Alicky's). Indeed I think Ella would have been a splendid Kaiserin with her beauty, charm and kindness. As big a jewel as Alix of Wales & Sisi of Austria. But she did have more freedom in St Petersburg than she would have than Postdam. Her Aunt Louise (Duchess of Argyle) flinched when she visited her sister Vicky and threw cold water at any hint of a marriage with a Prussian Prince.

The desire to help goes back to their mother Alice, who always tried to be helpful

Offline Olga Maria

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Re: Grand Duchess and other possible suitors - what if..
« Reply #274 on: October 30, 2013, 04:37:10 AM »
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I don't think Ella made a much better match with Serge than Willy. Both men are flawed and her life would not have been true bliss (unlike Alicky's).
Hmm, I can't say for sure what Ella's married life had been, given the fact we won't ever know what Serge & Ella's everyday life was when there was just the 2 of them together; things which they don't need to write in their diaries or in letters to others. Serge's attitudes to other people even after being married still stayed 'terrifying', but we don't know what he was when he & Ella were alone. He might be like Alix to Nicky - only with him she became 'Sunny'.
Ella could have found happiness with him which only both of them could understand. Perhaps, Ella has had her own definition of a 'blissful marriage'.

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But she did have more freedom in St Petersburg than she would have than Postdam. Her Aunt Louise (Duchess of Argyle) flinched when she visited her sister Vicky and threw cold water at any hint of a marriage with a Prussian Prince.
Yes, I think she considered this, too. In the previous posts, the Prussian Court had been described as very serious.
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The desire to help goes back to their mother Alice, who always tried to be helpful
You are absolutely right : )


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Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Grand Duchess and other possible suitors - what if..
« Reply #275 on: October 31, 2013, 12:11:01 AM »
well...I think Serge kept Ella on a tight leach in terms of spending...even though he was pretty rich. Not to mention him censoring her reading material. So her kind of bliss might be different. I could not see Alicky being controlled by Nicky in the same way.

Offline Olga Maria

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Re: Grand Duchess and other possible suitors - what if..
« Reply #276 on: October 31, 2013, 03:33:32 AM »
You're right, Alix wouldn't be controlled by Nicky in that way.
LOL, I think it's good that Serge limited Ella's spending. I think it 's a way of not making her spoiled. If I were Serge, I would think over-spending is too unwise, considering there were lots of poor people (however, lol, he spent much money for her jewels!)
As for the reading materials, for sure Ella felt bad about it.  But I think she forgot about that restriction later on, and didn't let it affect her happiness with Serge (just an opinion, though).

« Last Edit: October 31, 2013, 03:53:38 AM by Grand Princess Shandroise »

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Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Grand Duchess and other possible suitors - what if..
« Reply #277 on: October 31, 2013, 11:02:04 PM »
Well...Half of Ella's spending was of course on her clothes and half on charity. She was pretty balanced that way. :-)
I think Ella admired Serge's spirituality & intellect more than anything else. In those two things Willy came out short.

Offline Olga Maria

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Re: Grand Duchess and other possible suitors - what if..
« Reply #278 on: November 01, 2013, 01:29:28 AM »
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Well...Half of Ella's spending was of course on her clothes and half on charity. She was pretty balanced that way. :-)
Ah so that's how she spent. I instantly thought with overspending, it meant she was spending more for luxuries for herself. Thank you very much for informing me  : )

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I think Ella admired Serge's spirituality & intellect more than anything else. In those two things Willy came out short.
Very well said!

Hmm, btw, are there photos of Willy's early visits to Wolfsgarten? I don't know anything. It would be nice to see one!


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Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Grand Duchess and other possible suitors - what if..
« Reply #279 on: November 01, 2013, 10:46:25 AM »
Ella was very much into her appearance and clothes, but she was always generous in her charity work. That was one of the reasons why she was popular while Serge was hated.

I have to say that I haven't seen those pictures. But love to find out about it more. Apart from Willy & Serge, there was also a prince of Baden that asked for her hand.

Offline Olga Maria

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Re: Grand Duchess and other possible suitors - what if..
« Reply #280 on: November 03, 2013, 02:20:19 AM »
Happy Birthday to our Beloved Grand Duchess!

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Ella was very much into her appearance and clothes, but she was always generous in her charity work. That was one of the reasons why she was popular while Serge was hated.
You're right... hmm, I wonder if Serge has given to charity in secret. Seems possible.
Did Ella have income as a Grand Duchess? (It was not Serge who gave her money to give to charity, right?)
Because if Ella wasn't earning something while Serge was still alive, then it means Serge was the one who gave Ella money for that.
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I have to say that I haven't seen those pictures. But love to find out about it more. Apart from Willy & Serge, there was also a prince of Baden that asked for her hand.
: (  Sad that there is really nothing. Seems like they didn't want to keep a remembrance of their cousin Willy's visits ~
Yes I know the poor Fritz of Baden. He indeed was a good man. Had Ella loved and chosen him, she could have been happiest with him.


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Offline Svetabel

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Re: Grand Duchess and other possible suitors - what if..
« Reply #281 on: November 03, 2013, 08:18:40 AM »
Happy Birthday to our Beloved Grand Duchess!

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Ella was very much into her appearance and clothes, but she was always generous in her charity work. That was one of the reasons why she was popular while Serge was hated.
You're right... hmm, I wonder if Serge has given to charity in secret. Seems possible.
Did Ella have income as a Grand Duchess? (It was not Serge who gave her money to give to charity, right?)
Because if Ella wasn't earning something while Serge was still alive, then it means Serge was the one who gave Ella money for that.
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I have to say that I haven't seen those pictures. But love to find out about it more. Apart from Willy & Serge, there was also a prince of Baden that asked for her hand.
: (  Sad that there is really nothing. Seems like they didn't want to keep a remembrance of their cousin Willy's visits ~
Yes I know the poor Fritz of Baden. He indeed was a good man. Had Ella loved and chosen him, she could have been happiest with him.



"The poor Fritz of Baden" was homosexual. So how could she have been happiest with him?

And please don't forget the title of the topic, any other questions should be discussed in the proper topic. Thanks.

Offline Превед

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Re: Grand Duchess and other possible suitors - what if..
« Reply #282 on: November 03, 2013, 09:38:08 AM »
"The poor Fritz of Baden" was homosexual. So how could she have been happiest with him?

Gosh, so both Victoria of Baden and Ella of Hesse had a gay/bi brother and were married to gay/bi men! What a strange bond!
And consider that they both grew up in the Upper Rhenian Plain, on opposite sides of über-romantic Heidelberg, the cradle of the most famous spouse of a gay royal: Liselotte, the Princess Palatine aka Madame, the Duchess of Orléans.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2013, 09:44:34 AM by Превед »
Берёзы севера мне милы,—
Их грустный, опущённый вид,
Как речь безмолвная могилы,
Горячку сердца холодит.

(Афанасий Фет: «Ивы и берёзы», 1843 / 1856)

Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Grand Duchess and other possible suitors - what if..
« Reply #283 on: November 03, 2013, 10:01:09 AM »
The strange thing is that all three suitors had a bit of gay stint on them. Willy was very close to his friend who was gay and later involved in a big scandal. Serge was long rumored to be gay and now Fritz of Baden. It does not seem that in choosing any of the above would bring her absolute wedded bliss. I think Serge was one of the better choices.

Some people speculate that Ella could remarry after the death of Serge. If she did pursue that, who would be in the age group or wealth to marry her ?

Offline Превед

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Re: Grand Duchess and other possible suitors - what if..
« Reply #284 on: November 03, 2013, 10:16:50 AM »
The strange thing is that all three suitors had a bit of gay stint on them. Willy was very close to his friend who was gay and later involved in a big scandal. Serge was long rumored to be gay and now Fritz of Baden.

Oh my God, true! Gay men need extra beautiful, super-feminine women like Ella in order to be able to do their dynastic duty? (I.e. the opposite of Liselotte of the Palatinate!) Notice how the bi Grand Duke Konstantin was quite smitten with Ella.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2013, 10:21:34 AM by Превед »
Берёзы севера мне милы,—
Их грустный, опущённый вид,
Как речь безмолвная могилы,
Горячку сердца холодит.

(Афанасий Фет: «Ивы и берёзы», 1843 / 1856)