Author Topic: Grand Duchess and other possible suitors - what if..  (Read 105452 times)

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Offline Olga Maria

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Re: Grand Duchess and other possible suitors - what if..
« Reply #225 on: April 19, 2009, 09:32:11 PM »
Ella, from the start enchanted the Russian masses because of her beauty and down-to earth soul. A good aura can be seen from the first time you're ever going to see her (I think so). And you are right about what you've said on the second post, Naty !

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Offline Svetabel

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Re: Grand Duchess and other possible suitors - what if..
« Reply #226 on: December 30, 2010, 02:36:16 AM »
Don't remember if it had been mentioned before here, but Ella had  a chance to enchant Prince Waldemar of Denmark, brother of Empress Maria Fedorovna.
In her letter to MF in 1885 year she said that she was not polite with Waldemar becouse of his behaviour as she had fallen in love before (into Sergei) and that's why she was cool with the Prince. She was very glad that he at last found a bride, Marie of Orleans.

Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Grand Duchess and other possible suitors - what if..
« Reply #227 on: December 30, 2010, 10:21:22 AM »
Judging from his later marriage, I think Ella might have made a good escape. Waldermar of Denmark later formed a close relationship with his nephew Prince George of Greece. Marie of Orleans was regulated to second place (as well as Marie Bonaparte noted as well). It seems like less than perfect men are attracted to Ella. Willy (needy and need of a lot of love), Serge (another needy person who was cold and unable to gravitate love) and now Waldermar. I don't know much about Fritz of Baden's personality though, another of possible choices to Ella.

Offline DssofBelem

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Re: Grand Duchess and other possible suitors - what if..
« Reply #228 on: September 30, 2012, 01:46:03 PM »
I don't know much about Fritz of Baden's personality though, another of possible choices to Ella.

I read (in Wikipedia, so I can't have sure about the information, they appoint in the end of the article a book named The Grand Dukes of Baden) that he was shy and not scholarly but a good military (but liberal in his reign- Vicky would be happy!). They were friends but I think that the marriage would turn to be unhappy.

Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Grand Duchess and other possible suitors - what if..
« Reply #229 on: September 30, 2012, 02:41:37 PM »
I don't think Ella had a good choices of marriage partners. :-( I think Fritz sound the most normal and less complicated, but Ella seem to like challenges of difficult men.

Offline perdita

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Re: Grand Duchess and other possible suitors - what if..
« Reply #230 on: November 09, 2012, 04:01:08 AM »
Well...Konstantin was a kinder and less tortured person than Serge. Serge had a cruel streak that was kind of scarry. I think Felix Yussopov was not far off the mark when he said Serge liked touching him, while he always brush it off. Konstantin wasn't acussed of molesting boys...

Yussopov didn't say Serge liked touching him.  The reverse was true.  Serge didn't like Yussopov touching him.

There exists no credible evidence Serge molested boys.

King's conjecturing & second hand sources aren't proof.

Rumor: "A statement or report not authenticated."

There were many more royals, members of the aristocracy, and staff who claimed first hand that they liked or respected Serge--than there are who profess admiration or liking for cold blooded murderer (& very weird) Yussopov.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2012, 04:34:49 AM by perdita »

Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Grand Duchess and other possible suitors - what if..
« Reply #231 on: November 09, 2012, 01:23:56 PM »
No. Yussopov did not like Serge touching him and hated that he made him sing.

Think there is more info on Serge being gay or closeted gay from some Russian sources. It claims Serge like Jewish boys.

Offline perdita

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Re: Grand Duchess and other possible suitors - what if..
« Reply #232 on: November 09, 2012, 03:32:44 PM »
No. Yussopov did not like Serge touching him and hated that he made him sing.

Think there is more info on Serge being gay or closeted gay from some Russian sources. It claims Serge like Jewish boys.

Yussopov wrote that Serge did not like it when he touched him.

Provide the quotation where Yussopov said that he didn't like Serge touching him. (Even if true, not exactly proof that Serge was a pedophile.)

In fact, Yussopov wrote that he did not like Serge "starring" at him. According to Marie of Rumania, "our chosen favorite" Serge had menacing pinpoint eyes like a cat.

During his lifetime did Yussopov ever claim that Serge molested him or anyone elese? There was very little that Rasputin's killer would not blab for cash.

Russian sources conjecturing Serge was gay or closeted isn't proof.

Offline Kalafrana

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Re: Grand Duchess and other possible suitors - what if..
« Reply #233 on: November 10, 2012, 02:33:29 AM »
'In fact, Yussopov wrote that he did not like Serge "starring" at him. According to Marie of Rumania, "our chosen favorite" Serge had menacing pinpoint eyes like a cat.'

Quite a number of photos of Serge which have been posted on the Forum show an intense and rather unpleasant stare. It's not simply the photography of the day - other subjects don't!

Ann

Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Grand Duchess and other possible suitors - what if..
« Reply #234 on: November 10, 2012, 08:06:44 AM »
The fact is Serge was not really likable.

Offline perdita

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Re: Grand Duchess and other possible suitors - what if..
« Reply #235 on: November 10, 2012, 08:19:21 AM »
No. Yussopov did not like Serge touching him and hated that he made him sing.

Think there is more info on Serge being gay or closeted gay from some Russian sources. It claims Serge like Jewish boys.

Is there ANYTHING pre & post revolution "Russian sources" haven't said?  (NET)

Hyperbole, mass hysteria, and rumors run amuck were Tsarist Russia's stock in trade.

Especially targeted for unfettered annihilation were unpopular public figures. (Empress Alexandra & Grand Duke Serge).


Had Yussopov written that he didn't like Serge touching him, the question is, why did Yussopov keep touching Serge?

Yussopov wrote that Serge did not like it when he touched him.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2012, 08:22:57 AM by perdita »

Offline Kalafrana

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Re: Grand Duchess and other possible suitors - what if..
« Reply #236 on: November 10, 2012, 08:27:16 AM »
'Yussopov wrote that Serge did not like it when he touched him.'

It would be interesting to know what kind of touching Yussupov was talking about.

Some people, both male and female, seem unable to keep their hands to themselves when talking to someone else. Being very non-tactile myself, it's something I notice and don't like at all.

Maybe Serge was like me in that respect.

Ann



Offline perdita

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Re: Grand Duchess and other possible suitors - what if..
« Reply #237 on: November 10, 2012, 09:03:45 AM »
The fact is Serge was not really likable.

If Serge were not really likeable then why did so many who knew him really like him?

The fact is a myriad of relations, friends, & staff professed to "like" "love" "trust" or "respect" the Grand Duke Serge.

Were they all insipid, disreputable, or blindsided by HIS incandescent charm?

i.e.,

Grand Duchess Elizabeth.

KR--& the Konstaninovich family.

Alexander 111 (Appointed Serge Governor of Moscow. Major honor.)

Grand Duke Paul.

Marie Alexandrovna.

Victoria of Battenerg & Ernest of Hesse.

Marie of Rumania--& sisters.

Grand Duke Kyril & Victoria Melita.

Princess Alexandra of Greece.

Princess Marie of Greece. (Outspoken "Minnie" of Greece said she "liked" Serge & described him always a "true friend".)

Zinaida Yusupov.

Fyodor Dostoevsky.

Countess Kleinmichel & daughters.

Countess Tolstoy. Leo Tolstoy.

The Pope.

General Laiming.

Etc.


Marie Pavlovna: "Those few who knew him well were deeply devoted to him..."

« Last Edit: November 10, 2012, 09:12:00 AM by perdita »

aleksandr pavlovich

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Re: Grand Duchess and other possible suitors - what if..
« Reply #238 on: November 10, 2012, 09:16:51 AM »
'Yussopov wrote that Serge did not like it when he touched him.'

It would be interesting to know what kind of touching Yussupov was talking about.

Some people, both male and female, seem unable to keep their hands to themselves when talking to someone else. Being very non-tactile myself, it's something I notice and don't like at all.

Maybe Serge was like me in that respect.

Ann





   It has been quite a while since I read Prince Yussupov's  "Lost Splendour,"  but I seem to recall (and I will gladly stand corrected) that Yussupov was childishly fascinated by the "stays" that the Grand Duke seemingly wore in his (tailored/fitted) uniform jacket, and thus began to touch the apparent slightly visual impression/s of them through the fabric, much to the irritation of the Grand Duke.                           Regards,  AP.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2012, 09:24:37 AM by aleksandr pavlovich »

Offline perdita

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Re: Grand Duchess and other possible suitors - what if..
« Reply #239 on: November 10, 2012, 09:49:51 AM »
'Yussopov wrote that Serge did not like it when he touched him.'

It would be interesting to know what kind of touching Yussupov was talking about.

Some people, both male and female, seem unable to keep their hands to themselves when talking to someone else. Being very non-tactile myself, it's something I notice and don't like at all.

Maybe Serge was like me in that respect.

Ann





   It has been quite a while since I read Prince Yussupov's  "Lost Splendour,"  but I seem to recall (and I will gladly stand corrected) that Yussupov was childishly fascinated by the "stays" that the Grand Duke seemingly wore in his (tailored/fitted) uniform jacket, and thus began to touch the apparent slightly visual impression/s of them through the fabric, much to the irritation of the Grand Duke.                           Regards,  AP.

Had Yussupov an aversion to being "touched" by the Grand Duke Serge then a fascination with tinkering with his stays was a non sequitur.  

From loopy Yussupov's perspective not a good idea.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2012, 09:51:52 AM by perdita »