Author Topic: Grand Duchess and other possible suitors - what if..  (Read 97019 times)

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Offline grandduchessella

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Re: Grand Duchess and other possible suitors - what if..
« Reply #285 on: November 03, 2013, 01:32:43 PM »
As was Felix Y.

As for post-widowhood suitors, I've mentioned before that a newspaper printed the obviously false rumor that Ella was engaged to Grand Duke Nicholas N (Nikolasha). I don't know whether they had any kind of special bond or if the paper just picked an eligible Grand Duke to name.
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Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Grand Duchess and other possible suitors - what if..
« Reply #286 on: November 05, 2013, 01:38:02 PM »
Indeed. Ella seemed to be a magnet for sexually frustrated men. Beginning with her brother Ernie, who also idolized her right up to Konstantin (KK). I think her femininity appealed to them as a safe mother confessor (as in the case of Felix Yussopov) and her style and beauty appealed to the aesthetic in gay men especially.

As for Nicholasha, wasn't he married to one of the "Black Pearls" from Montenegro.

Offline grandduchessella

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Re: Grand Duchess and other possible suitors - what if..
« Reply #287 on: November 13, 2013, 08:37:19 AM »
There was apparently something with Prince Charles (Carl) of Sweden. Queen Victoria wrote to Ella's sister Victoria in 1883:

"I shall certainly not say a word to Ella about Prince Charles of Sweden, but I must say I rejoice that she has acted as she has done about Serge, for I own I dreaded this marriage very much for her.... Uncle Leopold will be delighted – but I won’t mention Charles of Sweden to him."

So perhaps there were rumblings or overtures somewhere along the line?

Charles would go on to marry Princess Ingeborg of Denmark and be the father of 4--including Queen Astrid of Belgium and Crown Princess Martha of Norway. His descendants currently sit on those thrones.
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Offline Vecchiolarry

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Re: Grand Duchess and other possible suitors - what if..
« Reply #288 on: November 13, 2013, 10:23:14 AM »
Hi,

The Grand Duke Nicholas Nicholievich married Anastasia of Montenegro in 1907.  So, he would have been elegible in 1905/1906;  but he was 'courting' "Stana" at that time - she divorced her husband in 1906....

Larry

Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Grand Duchess and other possible suitors - what if..
« Reply #289 on: November 13, 2013, 10:23:46 AM »
Interesting...Maybe her life would be less eventful had she married Prince Carl of Sweden.

Offline Olga Maria

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Re: Grand Duchess and other possible suitors - what if..
« Reply #290 on: November 14, 2013, 08:56:12 PM »
There was apparently something with Prince Charles (Carl) of Sweden. Queen Victoria wrote to Ella's sister Victoria in 1883:

"I shall certainly not say a word to Ella about Prince Charles of Sweden, but I must say I rejoice that she has acted as she has done about Serge, for I own I dreaded this marriage very much for her.... Uncle Leopold will be delighted – but I won’t mention Charles of Sweden to him."

So perhaps there were rumblings or overtures somewhere along the line?

Charles would go on to marry Princess Ingeborg of Denmark and be the father of 4--including Queen Astrid of Belgium and Crown Princess Martha of Norway. His descendants currently sit on those thrones.


Thank you soo much for sharing that info, grandduchessella!
I wonder why QV was afraid of marrying Ella off to Sweden when she allowed Margaret of Connaught to marry the crown prince of Sweden then ~ Perhaps because Carl is not a big catch?

Carl of Sweden seems to be a good man. He was a good father and husband. And may I add another country ruled by his descendants - Luxembourg, through his granddaughter Grand Duchess Josephine Charlotte : )

Hmm, but I hope we see more info about Carl's wanting to marry Ella. He declared an interest for her in 1883, a year before Ella got married!

Quote
Quoted from Svetabel :"The poor Fritz of Baden" was homosexual. So how could she have been happiest with him?

I'm sorry I didn't know this. Thank you for informing me. I thought he was a real man because of his achievements ~ but then, no one can predict what a man really is : (


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Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Grand Duchess and other possible suitors - what if..
« Reply #291 on: November 14, 2013, 11:30:31 PM »
Well...Ella's own brother Ernie was long rumored to be gay (as his wife Ducky said no stable boy is safe in the house), but he and Onor did have a rather harmonious life together. So maybe Fritz maybe able to do that too. Another of history's "what if"s.

Offline grandduchessella

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Re: Grand Duchess and other possible suitors - what if..
« Reply #292 on: November 15, 2013, 01:23:42 PM »
There was apparently something with Prince Charles (Carl) of Sweden. Queen Victoria wrote to Ella's sister Victoria in 1883:

"I shall certainly not say a word to Ella about Prince Charles of Sweden, but I must say I rejoice that she has acted as she has done about Serge, for I own I dreaded this marriage very much for her.... Uncle Leopold will be delighted – but I won’t mention Charles of Sweden to him."

So perhaps there were rumblings or overtures somewhere along the line?

Charles would go on to marry Princess Ingeborg of Denmark and be the father of 4--including Queen Astrid of Belgium and Crown Princess Martha of Norway. His descendants currently sit on those thrones.


Thank you soo much for sharing that info, grandduchessella!
I wonder why QV was afraid of marrying Ella off to Sweden when she allowed Margaret of Connaught to marry the crown prince of Sweden then ~ Perhaps because Carl is not a big catch?

Carl of Sweden seems to be a good man. He was a good father and husband. And may I add another country ruled by his descendants - Luxembourg, through his granddaughter Grand Duchess Josephine Charlotte : )

Hmm, but I hope we see more info about Carl's wanting to marry Ella. He declared an interest for her in 1883, a year before Ella got married!

Quote
Quoted from Svetabel :"The poor Fritz of Baden" was homosexual. So how could she have been happiest with him?

I'm sorry I didn't know this. Thank you for informing me. I thought he was a real man because of his achievements ~ but then, no one can predict what a man really is : (



Queen Victoria didn't have anything against the marriage from what I can tell but rather that she just wasn't going to push it on Ella at that point. Obviously, her remark was in reply to something Victoria had said--maybe about not pressuring her after she had apparently rebuffed Serge. QV did not that Leopold (Albany) would be happy with the idea.
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Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Grand Duchess and other possible suitors - what if..
« Reply #293 on: November 16, 2013, 10:41:58 AM »
That was strange that QV did not push for Carl since she was horrified that Ella was going to the "horrid" Russians.

Offline Olga Maria

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Re: Grand Duchess and other possible suitors - what if..
« Reply #294 on: November 18, 2013, 03:14:54 AM »
So thats' it! Many thank grandduchessella!
Uncle Leopold who has been a second father to his nieces and nephew really did join in planning for their marriages, too. It means he cared a lot for them.
And whatever his reason his, it's sad we won't know. (or is it known?)

Yes Eric that is something to wonder about, too -
It amuses me Carl asked for Ella's hand after Serge did his first proposal ~ if Ella also knew of Carl's intention, she surely had felt bad rejecting two men in a row.
 

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Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Grand Duchess and other possible suitors - what if..
« Reply #295 on: November 18, 2013, 03:57:11 PM »
I still think she should have married Willy. She had his affections and could make a difference in Berlin that "the cow from Holstein" (Bismark's words), who only flattered his vanity and made him even more insufferable than ever.

Offline Bambi

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Re: Grand Duchess and other possible suitors - what if..
« Reply #296 on: November 22, 2017, 08:38:36 PM »
Hi guys! So sorry to be reviving an old thread, but I didn't think it would be worth a thread of its own - would anyone happen to know much about Ella and Prince Nicholas of Greece? If I recall correctly, a couple of biographers have implied that she felt an attraction to him and her letters to him certainly demonstrate that there was a type of attachment and tenderness between the two, or at least definitely on her part. Would anyone happen to know more?

Offline Svetabel

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Re: Grand Duchess and other possible suitors - what if..
« Reply #297 on: November 23, 2017, 06:10:08 AM »
Hi guys! So sorry to be reviving an old thread, but I didn't think it would be worth a thread of its own - would anyone happen to know much about Ella and Prince Nicholas of Greece? If I recall correctly, a couple of biographers have implied that she felt an attraction to him and her letters to him certainly demonstrate that there was a type of attachment and tenderness between the two, or at least definitely on her part. Would anyone happen to know more?

Only C. Warwick in his bio on Grand Duchess mentions her correspondence with Nicholas of Greece and make a suggestion that was an innocent flirt of Elizaveta Fedorovna. No more info on this has never been published.

Offline LisaDavidson

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Re: Grand Duchess and other possible suitors - what if..
« Reply #298 on: November 23, 2017, 01:14:24 PM »
Even if Grand Duchess Elizabeth and Prince Nicholas of Greece had been madly in love, which they were not, there was no possibility of a marriage between them.

Ella married Serge in 1884, when Nicholas of Greece was 12 years old, far too early to marry. Ella remained married to the Grand Duke until his death in 1905. Prior to this, Nicholas had married Grand Duchess Elena Vladimirovna in 1902, and they remained married until Nicholas' death in 1938.

So, they were both never available at the same time.

Offline Bambi

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Re: Grand Duchess and other possible suitors - what if..
« Reply #299 on: November 23, 2017, 05:24:46 PM »
Yes, I also think that a union between them would have been practically impossible. Neither or both of them were unavailable by the time they met. Also, Nicholas was eight years younger than Ella, making him the same age as her youngest sister, Alix. Had a union been possible, I think the fact that Ella was several years his senior would have been disapproved.

I know that Christopher Warwick touched upon the subject briefly where he included some excerpts of her letters to Nicholas and said that "Sergei's nature must have lacked flirtatiousness and romance, that of which she found, albeit fleetingly, with Nicholas of Greece, having an unexpected effect on and arousing feelings in Ella which took her by surprise." Hugo Mager also apparently touched upon the subject but I personally have never read his book. Joseph Howard Tyson in Fifty-Seven Years of Russian Madness also said she grew particularly fond of him as he amused her with his repartee, antics and humourous drawings and that there was an innocent attraction between the two, both he and Warwick stating that it was arguably the closest Ella would ever come to being unfaithful.

I also doubt that either one was in love with the other, but the excerpts she wrote to him were very tender. It may not have been an extramarital, passionate love affair but to me, personally, it is suggestive that, while she did truly love her husband, there may have been something severely lacking in her relationship with Sergei.

Anyway, I was wondering if anyone had the full transcripts of her correspondence with Nicholas? Or any pictures of the two together? Although I understand this may be unlikely given that they only spent a short amount of time together...