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Topic: The children of Henri II and Catherine de Medici  (Read 18401 times)
Reply #30
« on: November 19, 2005, 12:19:20 PM »
bell_the_cat Offline
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Felipe said in a letter that Henri was very peculiar after what he had been told, but I can't remember having read that it was known that he had male "friends". But I imagine it was of common knowledge!


Yes everyone in Europe knew.
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Reply #31
« on: October 02, 2007, 02:36:14 PM »
Vasaborg Offline
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Can anyone tell me how many natural children Charles IX had?
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Reply #32
« on: October 02, 2007, 04:59:53 PM »
bell_the_cat Offline
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I think there was just Charles, Duc d'Angouleme (1573- 1650), his son by Marie Touchet, who lived into the reign of Louis XIV!
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Reply #33
« on: October 04, 2007, 11:49:25 AM »
Vasaborg Offline
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Thanks for that information!.
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Reply #34
« on: October 06, 2007, 03:46:15 AM »
Mari Offline
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Felipe said in a letter that Henri was very peculiar after what he had been told, but I can't remember having read that it was known that he had male "friends". But I imagine it was of common knowledge!
Quote


I found this on Henri III:

Quote
He was his mother's favorite; she called him chers yeux ("Precious Eyes") and lavished her fondness and affection upon him for most of his life. His elder brother Charles grew to detest him, resenting Henry's greater health and activity.

His artistic tastes were a source of concern to the court. Unlike the other men of his family, he showed a marked interest in clothes and fabrics, jewels, lapdogs, and toys. He also had a keen eye for fashions and beauty which in his later years would become an obsession, and constantly appeared elegant and sophisticated, although not always appropriate – on festive occasions, he was known to dress more richly and fantastically than the ladies of the court, adorning himself with jewels and fantastic costumes, prompting the Spanish ambassador, Zuniga, to write to Philip II of Spain, "With all of this he shows who he really is". On another occasion, a ball given by Catherine de' Medici at Chenonceau in June 1577, the King whole-heartedly participated in the theme - transvestism - by wearing "diamonds, emeralds and pearls. His hair was tinted with violet powder and wearing a dress of superb brocade, he made a definite contrast to his wife", who had chosen not to dress in men's clothing.[1]

Prior to ascending the throne, he was a leader of the royal army in the French Wars of Religion against the Huguenots, and took part in the victories over them at Battle of Jarnac and Battle of Moncontour. While still Duke, he instigated the St. Bartholomew's Day Massacre, in which thousands of Huguenots were killed; his reign as King would see France in constant turmoil over religion.

On August 1, 1589, Henry III lodged with his army at Saint-Cloud, Hauts-de-Seine, prepared to attack Paris, when a young fanatical Dominican friar, Jacques Clément, carrying false papers, was granted access to deliver important documents to the King. The monk gave the King a bundle of papers and stated that he had a secret message to deliver. The King signaled for his attendants to step back for privacy, and Clément whispered in his ear while plunging a knife into his abdomen. Clément was killed on the spot by the guards
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    1.. ^ Frieda, Leonie, Catherine de Medici
    2.^ Durant, Will, The Story of Civilization Vol. VII, Chpt. XII, p.361

He was a man of keen intelligence and cultivated mind, and deserves as much as Francis I the title of patron of letters and art. But his incurable indolence and love of pleasure prevented him from taking any active part in affairs. Surrounded by his mignons, he scandalized the people by his effeminate manners. He dressed himself in women's clothes, made a collection of little dogs and hid in the cellars when it thundered. /www.nndb.com/people/842/000093563/

Two sources that mention Henri III...who were his favorite's? Does anyone know?
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Reply #35
« on: October 06, 2007, 11:44:17 AM »
umigon Offline
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These were some of his mignons, although he had some others:

1. Jean Louis de Nogaret (1554-1642), duc d'Epernon.

2. François d'Or (+1594)

3. Jacques de Lévis (1554-1578), comte de Quélus.

4. Henri de Saint-Sulpice (+1576), baron de St.Sulpice.

5. Anne de Joyeuse (1560-1587), duc de Joyeuse.

6. Louis de Maugiron (+1578)

7. François d'Espinay (1554-1597)
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Reply #36
« on: October 07, 2007, 06:50:34 AM »
Mari Offline
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The Duel of the Mignons

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In April 1578, the rival court parties of Henry III and Duke of Guise decided to reenact the battle of the Horatii and the Curiatii. On 27 April, Jacques de Caylus, Louis de Maugiron and Jean d'Arcès (representing the party of the King) engaged in battle with Charles de Balzac, Ribérac, and Georges de Schomberg (representing the party of the Guises). Maugiron and Schomberg were killed, Ribérac died of wounds the following noon, d'Arcès was wounded in the head and convalesced in a hospital for six weeks, while Caylus sustained as many 19 wounds and passed away after 33 hours of agony. Only Balzac got off with a mere scratch on his arm.
   
This meaningless loss of life impressed itself on the public imagination. Jean Passerat wrote an elegy, Plaintes de Cléophon, on the occasion. In the political treatise Le Theatre de France (1580) the duel was invoked as "the day of the pigs" who "killed each other in the precinct of Saint Paul, serving him in the Muscovite manner".[4] Michel Montaigne decried the event as "une image de lacheté", and Pierre Brantôme connected it with the deplorable spread of the Italian and Gascon manners at Henry's court. The incident accelerated the estrangement between the two Henrys.
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[edit] Notes and references
   1. Katherine B. Crawford, "Love, Sodomy, and Scandal: Controlling the Sexual Reputation of Henry III", Journal of the History of Sexuality 12.4 (October       
       2003 513-542
   2. ^ Quoted in Crawford 2003:524.
   3. ^ Ibid.
   4. ^ Quoted by Nicolas Le Roux in La faveur du roi: mignons et courtisans au temps des derniers Valois. Champ Vallon, 2001. ISBN 2876733110. Page 388.

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The mignons were frivolous and fashionable young men, to whom public malignity attributed heterodox sexuality, rumors that some historians have found to be a factor in the disintegration of the late Valois monarchy
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.

 Looking up some of Henri III favorites like the Duc de Joyeuse
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His massacre of 800 Huguenots during a campaign in Poitou (the massacre de Saint-Eloi, 21 June, 1587) incurred the displeasure of the King. He was received coldly at court and, anxious to be restored to Henry's favour, led royal troops against the king's arch-enemy, Henry of Navarre. He suffered a defeat at the hands of the Huguenots in the Battle of Coutras and was taken prisoner. Although he offered a ransom of 100,000 écus, Joyeuse was killed in revenge for the massacre of Saint-Eloi, as was his 18-year-old brother Claude, lord of Saint-Sauveur. He was childless and was succeeded as Duke of Joyeuse by another brother, François.
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[edit] References    * Pierre de Vaissière, Messieurs de Joyeuse (1560-1615), Paris, Albin Michel, 1926. 352 p.
    * François Puaux, Histoire de la Réformation française, tome II, Paris, Lévy, 1859.
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Reply #37
« on: October 08, 2007, 11:23:12 PM »
Mari Offline
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Do you think Charles IX knew about the plots of his Mother and Brother and was convinced  to join them or was presented with it as an aftermath. Here are two quotes from different Sources on the Huguenot Murders ....What do you think?



Quote
Charles IX did not long survive the Massacre. He had always been fragile, both emotionally and physically: Emotionally, his moods now swung from coarse boasting about the extremity of the Massacre, to claims that the screams of the murdered Huguenots kept ringing in his ears. Frantically he blamed his mother: "Who but you is the cause of all of this? God's blood, you are the cause of it all!" The Queen-mother responded by declaring she had a lunatic for a son. Will Durant, The Story of Civilization, Vol. VII, Chpt. XIII, p.355

Quote
Catherine, with the help of his other son Henri, convinced Charles IX for the elimination of all counts Protestants. Ce massacre qui eut lieu lors de la Saint-Barthélemy 1572 s'emballa avec la participation de tout le peuple et s'étandit à toute la France. The massacre which took place at the Saint s'emballa in 1572 with the participation of the entire people and s'étandit across France.
rom a French site http://www.publius-historicus.com/charles9.htm


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Reply #38
« on: October 12, 2007, 01:05:54 PM »
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Can anyone tell me if Francis (the only son of King Henry II not to become King) had any natural children?
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Reply #39
« on: October 13, 2007, 01:38:58 AM »
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Henry II was succeeded by his son, Francis II.

 Francis II :Reigned 1559-1560   King Consort of Scotland 1558-1560

Quote
His marriage to Mary Stuart was arranged by his father in 1548 when Francis was four years old. Mary had been crowned Queen of Scots in Stirling Castle on September 9, 1543, at the age of nine months. Once the marriage agreement had been formally ratified, in 1548 the six-year-old Mary was sent to France, to be raised in the royal court until the marriage. Despite the fact that Mary was tall for her age and fluent in speech while Francis was abnormally short and stuttered, Henry II said that "from the very first day they met, my son and she got on as well together as if they had known each other for a long time".[1]

On April 24, 1558, the fourteen-year-old Dauphin was married to Mary in a union that would give the future King of France the throne of Scotland and a claim to the throne of England. They had no children.

A year after his marriage, Francis's father, Henry II, died, and Francis, still only fifteen years old, was crowned king at Reims. The crown was so heavy that nobles had to hold it in place for him.[2] His mother, Catherine de Medici, was appointed regent, but it is considered that Mary's uncles François de Guise and Charles de Guise may have held the real power in that period.

Francis II, who had always been a sickly child, died on 5 December 1560 in Orléans, Loiret, at the age of sixteen, when an ear infection worsened and caused an abscess in his brain. He is buried in Saint Denis Basilica.


I have not found any record of natural children.  As He was 14 when he Married I doubt it. He was controlled by his Mother and sickly. He still looks very young.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_II_of_France
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Reply #40
« on: October 13, 2007, 02:10:38 PM »
Vasaborg Offline
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Henry II had two sons named Francis , one became King the other died in 1584, (he was born in 1555). I was wondering what he died of and if he had any natural children.
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Reply #41
« on: October 27, 2007, 05:51:47 AM »
bell_the_cat Offline
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Hi Vasaborg!

You are referring to Francois Hercule, Catherine's youngest son, and the intermittent suitor of Elizabeth of England. Unlike his brother Charles, he had no children, but like him, he died of tuberculosis.
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Reply #42
« on: July 16, 2009, 06:45:21 AM »
Kimberly Offline
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Hi all.Having just read Leonie Frieda's bio of Catherine de Medici and also Haldane's bio of Margot de Valois, I thought it would be fascinating to have a look at the offspring of Henri II and Catherine.
Francois II (1544- 1560) m Mary Stuart, Queen of Scots.
Elisabeth   (1545-1568) m Philip II King of Spain.
Claude      (1547-1575) m charles Duke of Lorraine.
Louis        (1549).
Charles IX (1550-1574) m Elizabeth of Austria.
Henri III (Edouarde-Alexandre) (1551-1589) m Louise de Vaudemont-Lorraine.
Marguerite (Margot) (1553-1615) m Henri de Navarre.
Francois- Hercules (1555-1584) Duc de Alencon.
Victoire and Jeanne-twins (1556).

What an unhealthy, toxic bunch they were.
Anyone have any comments or thoughts about the last of the Valois?
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Reply #43
« on: July 16, 2009, 08:35:17 AM »
Vecchiolarry Offline
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Hi,

An interesting bunch....
One would have thought that these children and so many of them (10) would have continued the Valois into several more centuries.  Considering that Henry II and Catherine de Medici were strong & healthy persons for 16th century conditions, it's remarkable that their children were so sickly and perverse that they never produced an heir!!!

Oh well, goodbye Valois, hello Bourbon!!!

Larry
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Reply #44
« on: July 16, 2009, 12:03:48 PM »
Kimberly Offline
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Yes, only Claude and Elisabeth produced heirs from the right side of the blanket!
Charles IX had a daughter with his queen who survived into early childhood and an illegitimate son-Charles de Valois, who lived to a ripe old age.
Henri III's queen suffered a miscarriage and didnot conceive again. Now THAT was an interesting relationship in that Louise adored him and he treated her like a doll. It is said that their wedding had to be delayed until the evening because Henri insisted on doing her "coiffure" !!
do you think that the health problems suffered by these Valois' was Tuberculosis...or something else?

Francois died from mastoiditis (which I am sure lead at least to a brain abcess, if not full blown meningitis).
Charles IX supposedly died of TB and Henri III (assassinated) had a chronic suppurating fistula between his eye and his nose.
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