Author Topic: Archduke Otto (1912-2011) and his family  (Read 121067 times)

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Offline britt.25

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Re: Archduke Otto (1912-2011) and his family
« Reply #15 on: March 21, 2007, 03:07:38 AM »
The problem seems to be that there are querries in Karls life (private life I think), and as far as I have understood it, there seem to be other family members, who are not allright with Otto´s decision. Until now I don´t know further details, I will -maybe- get some more next month. I don´t know what others think about it? Is Karl the right person to success his father in the way, which would be good? I also admire Otto, he´s such an interesting, and politically active figure, fighting for his ideas and so on, and the interview, which I once posted, shows that he still travels that much! It´s almost impossible in that age!
La vérité est plus importante que l'amour

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Offline Greenowl

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Re: Archduke Otto (1912-2011) and his family
« Reply #16 on: March 21, 2007, 04:26:28 PM »
Hello Britt!

Gosh, that is really very interesting information! Needless to say, I would love to know more, especially which members of the family are unhappy with Archduke Otto's decision and consider that Archduke Karl is not the right man for the job, so to speak. I wonder how Otto feels about it? I imagine he must be rather disappointed, as in the letter above he clearly believes that Karl is now ready to be head of the imperial house and the Habsburg family. As we both agree, Archduke Otto is an outstanding person and it would be extremely difficult for anyone to measure up to the high and exacting standards he set. However, Archduke Karl has not exactly covered himself with glory and the only attention he has drawn to himself has tended to be negative. I am not aware of any recent scandals (have I missed something??), but recall the World Vision affair that put a premature end to his political career, and the "diadem scandal" when he tried to "smuggle" a diadem belonging to his wife's family across the border and failed to declare it to the custom and excise authorities. In both cases he was found not guilty of anything but negligence, but it does leave a rather bad impression of someone who is, at best, "unlucky". Thus for that reason I can well understand the attitude of some family members. However, on the other hand I am surprised that they would dare to challenge the laws of succession. I mean, he is Otto's successor and first in line. Even Emperor Franz I. did not alter the succesion laws in favour of Archduke Franz Karl, although the heir, later Emperor Ferdinand I, had many, many health problems (to put it mildly). Unless Archduke Karl himself is willing to step down in favour of his brother Archduke Georg (who I assume would be the next in line) I don't see how the family can change or challenge the situation, and if they oppose Karl I feel that they will only damage themselves and the reputation of the whole family in the long term, which would, to my mind, be extremely tragic and disloyal, in view of the energy, devotion to duty and effort invested not only by Archduke Otto himself, but also by his mother, Empress Zita.

What are your thoughts on the matter?? And thanks again for that info...I really had no idea!

Offline britt.25

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Re: Archduke Otto (1912-2011) and his family
« Reply #17 on: March 23, 2007, 04:15:17 AM »
Hello Greenowl,

I saw your comment very late...sorry! You have so many interesting ideas and thoughts on that topic..congratulation! In general it seems to me that this topic is not of much interest for the other members :'( Or am I wrong?
In general I must confess that I did not read so much about any "scandals" of Archduke Karl, because I am rather concerned with the historical figures of the Hapsburgs, but yes, the situation is difficult. Who should be the head of the family, if not Archduke Karl? To name another member, like the second son Georg, there must be heavy reasons, more heavy than the things that happened in the last years with Archduke Karl, I think. Otto von Habsburg does not say anything directly concerning that in the letter, but the person, who gave me the letter told it "between the lines" that there might be people, who are surprised about Otto´s decision and who might not share that. There is only the sentence of Otto "Ich hoffe und erwarte, dass auch ihr ihm die gleiche Unterstützung zukommen lasst!" (I wish and I demand that all of you accord him the same support as well!) that lets you see that there might be some problems concerning that. The family member did not say anything directly concerning this, and I hope I will find out some more, at the moment he is travelling.
Indeed there are examples, where fathers did not elect the eldest son to the successor, for example among the Bonaparte family, where Louis Napoleon (d. 1997), because of differences (especially because of political views: see the Bonaparte topic) with this son, passed his son and named his grandson to his official successor (Jean Christophe, b. 1986). But here we have a completely different situation: Maybe Karl did some things wrong, but as it seems concerning things that are important for his father Otto, especially the work for the "golden Vlies", he is satisfied with him. Do you think , he should have named any other?
For me it´s hard to decide, because my knowledge of the modern Habsburgs is limited, I was rather concerned with the "old" ones!   
 
« Last Edit: March 23, 2007, 04:21:02 AM by britt.25 »
La vérité est plus importante que l'amour

     Marie Bonaparte (1882-1962)

Offline Greenowl

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Re: Archduke Otto (1912-2011) and his family
« Reply #18 on: March 24, 2007, 05:50:19 PM »
Hello Britt!

It would be really great if you could obtain some further information from the family member you know when he returns from his travels. I have naturally being thinking about the matter, and another point that struck me is that some of the family would not be over impressed by the fact that Archduke Karl is at present separated from his wife, although in reality I don't see why this should bother them unduly, especially as it is nothing new....think of Franz Jospeh and Elisabeth (they were, after all, separated most of the time). I suppose another alternative would be to name Archduke Karl's son as head of the family, and appoint another family member to act on his behalf until he came of age. However, I am sure if Archduke Otto had any doubts about Archduke Karl's suitablity he would not have written that letter and instead remained at his post until the end of his days. I don't know that I would read too much into the lines "Ich hoffe und erwarte, dass auch ihr ihm die gleiche Unterstützung zukommen lasst!" (I hope and expect that you will also accord him the same support!) as it is the sort of formal thing that one usually writes when stepping down and handing one's position over to a successor. On the other hand, one could argue that the atmosphere must be "strained" for Otto to feel the need to express his intentions formally.

Anyway, please do keep me posted on any developments, as I am especially curious to know from what quarter the discontent has emerged!

Offline britt.25

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Re: Archduke Otto (1912-2011) and his family
« Reply #19 on: March 25, 2007, 02:50:21 AM »
Hello Greenowl,

Thanks for your interesting thoughts. I´ll post it as soon as I have further details. You´re right concerning the sentence "Ich hoffe und erwarte von Euch (...)" that it could be wrong to interprete to much into it. But the person, who gave me the letter told "between the lines" that there might be people, who are kind of surprised about that nomination of Karl to Otto´s successor...I also think, if even if there were and are private problems in Karl´s life, it must not me a reason not to name him, because there are also other things important. Even if he is for example separated from his wife and made some things wrong , he can be a man with deep, serious feelings for his family and the tradition for example. And I am sure, Otto is sure about that, when he names him. "Zwei paar Schuh" as you would say in german. What you do think? I wished I knew more, but I never read very much on Archduke Karl.
La vérité est plus importante que l'amour

     Marie Bonaparte (1882-1962)

Offline Lucien

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Re: Archduke Otto (1912-2011) and his family
« Reply #20 on: March 25, 2007, 04:08:07 AM »
Like you say Britt,Karl seems to keep a low profile,there is not all that much known about him,let alone his work.He is the eldest son and therefore the natural dynastic Heir of his father and even if some in the IF might disagree with the person of the Archduke Karl,his abilities etc.,they will have to accept the decision by Otto as he is the Head of the House Habsburg.As happened throughout history in many if not most Royal Houses.

All we do know is that he and his wife live separate lives,Franciska and the children in Vienna and Karl in Salzburg.This is a no no to many,as the Austrian IF is,as we know devout Catholic,at least Otto and Regina are,but Karl isn't all that much into it or so it appears.In the old days the Austrian Emperors title was His Apostolic Majesty,it's not exactly an "Apostolic" life Karl leads,and in a very conservative family like this,it doesn't sit well.As in most cases,this is another "most families have them" pointing at the differences and the black sheeps.As you say Britt,he might be a man with deep serious feelings,but there is little known in which fields he deplores these deep feelings.To me,he never really struck me as a "high profile",but a nice guy,yes.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2007, 04:21:09 AM by Lucien »
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Offline Lucien

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Re: Archduke Otto (1912-2011) and his family
« Reply #21 on: March 25, 2007, 04:43:16 AM »
Karl and Franceska's son's Ferdinand Zvonimir's website:

http://www.twschwarzer.de/ferdinan.htm

Je Maintiendrai

Offline britt.25

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Re: Archduke Otto (1912-2011) and his family
« Reply #22 on: March 25, 2007, 07:06:15 AM »
Thanks for your comment, Lucien. I was not sure, how much is really known about Archduke Karl, because as I said, I do hardly read those newspapers, where there are royal stories presented- I am rather concerned with the historical figures of this family. But from your words I can see that there does not seem to be much known about Karl´s inner feelings for his family and his family traditions. Family scandals can be something completely different, that doesn´t show his real attitude towards his heritage. It would be interesting to know some closer details of Karl´s view concerning his new task- even when I think that it is not something completely new to him: There is no "strict" passing all the tasks to Karl from Otto von Habsburg´s side, when you read the letter and know the personality of Otto. He would never be person giving all tasks to anyone else, even if it is his son,  and then sitting in a chair for the rest of his life! His nature is too unresting and his view on his own political and traditional task in life as well, I think. As he said he will be Karl´s side and help him as long as it is possible for him. However it would be interesting to know, if Otto just names him because he is his natural successor and has a "must" to do so, or if he is really totally convinced of Karls ability in his family tasks. That´s not so easy to decide , I think. Concerning the expression "apostolic" and Karl´s life... Yes, maybe it does not really fit to this, but times are changing, even when he is the official heir of such a title... I think it´s always difficult, when you are a heir of a great family, to go with the time on the one hand, and on the other hand not to forget the family heritage. I really wished to know more about him, maybe I can find some more when searching.
You wrote that his wife Francesca lives with the children in Vienna, and Karl in Salzburg. Somewhere I had read that the daughters live with the father and the son with the mother (which sounded a bit untypical for me, but...). Or was it a confusion? From your post I read that he lives without the children, and that they all live with the mother. How often does he see them, and do they still have a friendship contact the parents? I am not really sure...Does he have any new girlfriend or something?
« Last Edit: March 25, 2007, 07:12:55 AM by britt.25 »
La vérité est plus importante que l'amour

     Marie Bonaparte (1882-1962)

Offline GD_vassily

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Re: Archduke Otto (1912-2011) and his family
« Reply #23 on: April 22, 2007, 08:32:33 AM »
who is the current head of the house of habsburg? and any information about what he/she is doing now?
thanks

Offline Rudolf_II

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Re: Archduke Otto (1912-2011) and his family
« Reply #24 on: April 22, 2007, 01:28:12 PM »
Otto von Habsburg, eldest son of Emperor Karl and Empress Zita.  He was a Member of the European Parliament until 1999, but being aged 94 his activities are not as numerous as they were.  He sounds sharp enough though, if his appearance on BBC Radio's recent Habsburg documentary is to be believed.
"Many people tell me I am bewitched and I well believe it, such are the things I experience and suffer."

Offline britt.25

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Re: Archduke Otto (1912-2011) and his family
« Reply #25 on: April 23, 2007, 02:19:43 AM »
We already have a thread on Archduke Otto and his wife Regina. Maybe we could put it together with this topic. I have also posted a letter of Otto von Habsburg on the thread about him, where he recently named his eldest son Karl to his successor. This letter was distributed among the family members in December 2006. Please take a look on the thread about the Archduke Otto and Archduchess Regina. 
La vérité est plus importante que l'amour

     Marie Bonaparte (1882-1962)

Offline MarieCharlotte

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Re: Archduke Otto (1912-2011) and his family
« Reply #26 on: April 23, 2007, 05:01:57 AM »
Dear Britt,

as this letter was only sent to family members, where did you get it from?
Ich aber breite trauernd aus
die weiten weissen Schwingen,
Und kehr' ins Feenreich nach Haus -
Nichts soll mich wieder bringen.


Elisabeth

Offline britt.25

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Re: Archduke Otto (1912-2011) and his family
« Reply #27 on: April 23, 2007, 12:18:01 PM »
For anonymity reasons of the person rather some more details in private, is this ok? But maybe you have already an idea, where is comes from (remember...?) ::)
La vérité est plus importante que l'amour

     Marie Bonaparte (1882-1962)

Offline MarieCharlotte

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Re: Archduke Otto (1912-2011) and his family
« Reply #28 on: April 23, 2007, 04:36:43 PM »
For anonymity reasons of the person rather some more details in private, is this ok? But maybe you have already an idea, where is comes from (remember...?) ::)

Yes indeed.  ;)
Ich aber breite trauernd aus
die weiten weissen Schwingen,
Und kehr' ins Feenreich nach Haus -
Nichts soll mich wieder bringen.


Elisabeth

Offline britt.25

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Re: Archduke Otto (1912-2011) and his family
« Reply #29 on: April 26, 2007, 02:27:38 PM »
Dear other moderators,

Thanks for putting the two threads on Otto together!!! :)
La vérité est plus importante que l'amour

     Marie Bonaparte (1882-1962)