Author Topic: Archduke Otto (1912-2011) and his family  (Read 121076 times)

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Offline britt.25

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Re: Archduke Otto (1912-2011) and his family
« Reply #30 on: July 06, 2007, 05:50:47 AM »
INteresting  that he is still so active and writes books in his old age, it's really amazing how he is still working! ;) Good link... thanks!
La vérité est plus importante que l'amour

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Offline Vecchiolarry

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Re: Archduke Otto (1912-2011) and his family
« Reply #31 on: July 06, 2007, 09:28:16 AM »
Hi,

If the Hapsburg monarchy had not collapsed in 1918, and Emperor Karl had still died in 1922, then Otto would now have ruled 85 years.  This would be one of the longest reigns in history.
Interesting!!

Of course, probably Karl would not have died in 1922 had he still been in the Hofburg with better medical facilities.  Knowing the longevity of the Hapsburgs (Franz Joseph and Ferdinand I and Empress Zita) Karl may have reigned another 30 to 40 years.
Even so, if Otto came to the throne in 1962, he still would have had a long monarchy - 45 years and counting!!

Larry

Offline dmitri

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Re: Archduke Otto (1912-2011) and his family
« Reply #32 on: July 06, 2007, 10:37:14 AM »
Yes I find it pleasing that Otto is still alive. How different his life would have been under different circumstances. Even if his father Karl had lost Austria but kept Hungary things would have been different. I think Horthy was the one who prevented a Habsburg restoration in Hungary. As for Otto I think he would have been a wise Emperor and King. Certainly I doubt that the Nazi Germans would have been able to march into Austria with such ease of a Empire had still existed. Franz Josef sure made a mistake where he signed the declaration of war on Serbia at his villa in Bad Ischl.

Offline Prince_Christopher

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Re: Archduke Otto (1912-2011) and his family
« Reply #33 on: July 06, 2007, 08:24:42 PM »
Does anyone know about Archduchess Regina's religion?

Is she Roman Catholic, and if so, did she convert upon her marriage to Otto?
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Offline britt.25

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Re: Archduke Otto (1912-2011) and his family
« Reply #34 on: July 09, 2007, 05:08:49 AM »
Yes I find it pleasing that Otto is still alive. How different his life would have been under different circumstances. Even if his father Karl had lost Austria but kept Hungary things would have been different. I think Horthy was the one who prevented a Habsburg restoration in Hungary. As for Otto I think he would have been a wise Emperor and King. Certainly I doubt that the Nazi Germans would have been able to march into Austria with such ease of a Empire had still existed. Franz Josef sure made a mistake where he signed the declaration of war on Serbia at his villa in Bad Ischl.

The question what would have happen, if the empire of Karl I had gone on after 1918 is a very interesting question, which was once discussed in an article by a former historyteacher of mine, where he described the peace ambitions of Karl I. with Germany, in April, 1917. Maybe the thesis of my former history teacher, who wrote about the meeting with Karl I and Hindenburg and Ludendorff at my hometown Bad Homburg in 1917, went a bit to far, but he concluded that the Weimarer constitution and maybe also the dictatorship of the Nazis could have been prevented, if Karl had had success in keeping his empire as a federation of undependent states. For me it's rather difficult to believe that Karl's empire would still have existed a lot of time, even when a peace was made in 1917, because the empire was already very very broken at that time, and in most of the countries, who once were parts of the Habsburg- Hungarian empire, strong national feelings and ambitions were arising, which forced them wanting to separate from the Habsburg empire.
What do others think? Is anybody interested in the article? Unfortunately it is in German. My former history teacher also wrote to Otto von Habsburg, and he answered him questions about his father.
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Offline Maximilano

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Re: Archduke Otto (1912-2011) and his family
« Reply #35 on: July 24, 2007, 11:52:24 AM »
Although they are not divorced, I heard in Salzburg recently that they live separate and apart. The son goes to the American school in Vienna. (Why should the heir to the Austo-Hungarian throne go to an Anerican school is a mystery) It is sad to see what becomes from a once politically and morally powerful family with a marriage that was doomed before it started. (Not a single direct uncle, aunt or cousin first degree went to their wedding)

It is true; Karl is today the "head" of the once powerful and respected House of Austria, whatever that means!

Britt, Nice pictures indead.

Offline britt.25

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Re: Archduke Otto (1912-2011) and his family
« Reply #36 on: July 24, 2007, 03:09:02 PM »
It's sad to hear that the family life and the marriage of Archduke Karl did not turn out successfully, but it must be taken, how it is. Karl must manage his task and he will do it. I hope he makes the best out of it (for his standards)
Yes, maybe it is not so usual for a member of the Habsburg family to visit an American school, but maybe Karl tries to educate his son in a modern way, because times are changing and even families like the Habsburgs do certainly not live today (and cannot live today) like they lived hundreds of years ago. I think it's a difficult task for such a family to find a way between tradition and heritage on the one hand, and the modern developments of society, like globalism and so, on on the the other hand. Maybe one must consider it, when critisizing that life style. However I don't have inner knowledge of that family, and don't know what other members say about it. That many of the cousins did not come to the marriage of Karl is indeed a pity and shows that his marriage was not seen very positively.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2007, 01:45:04 AM by britt.25 »
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Offline Seth Leonard

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Re: Archduke Otto (1912-2011) and his family
« Reply #37 on: July 24, 2007, 08:25:45 PM »
Some more of Archduchess Francesca & family:

The religous wedding at Mariazell of Archduke Karl of Austria & Baroness Francesca von Thyssen-Bornemisza, 31 Jan 1993

The Archduchess Francesca holding Archduchess Eleonore on the day of the latter's baptism, 24 Apr 1994

The Archduke Karl and Archduchess Francesca of Austria, 18 Apr 1997

Offline britt.25

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Re: Archduke Otto (1912-2011) and his family
« Reply #38 on: July 25, 2007, 03:23:55 AM »
Thank you for the nice picture.  :D

In general they do look nicely together. It's a pity that they live seperated and that there are problems in the family. The children - from their looks- are a good mixture of both parents.
La vérité est plus importante que l'amour

     Marie Bonaparte (1882-1962)

Offline Maximilano

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Re: Archduke Otto (1912-2011) and his family
« Reply #39 on: August 02, 2007, 02:01:29 AM »
Where are the harts of the loyal followers of the Austro Hungarian Monarchists? With him or with her?

Probably somwhere else

Offline MarieCharlotte

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Re: Archduke Otto (1912-2011) and his family
« Reply #40 on: August 02, 2007, 02:49:42 AM »
Where are the harts of the loyal followers of the Austro Hungarian Monarchists? With him or with her?

Probably somwhere else

Definitely NOT with HER ...  ;)
Ich aber breite trauernd aus
die weiten weissen Schwingen,
Und kehr' ins Feenreich nach Haus -
Nichts soll mich wieder bringen.


Elisabeth

Offline Greenowl

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Re: Archduke Otto (1912-2011) and his family
« Reply #41 on: August 02, 2007, 08:13:30 AM »
Well said, Marie Charlotte. I second that wholeheartedly!

Offline grandduchessella

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Re: Archduke Otto (1912-2011) and his family
« Reply #42 on: August 02, 2007, 09:07:47 AM »
Francesca's father had an interesting life:

(info from wikipedia)

Baron Hans Heinrich von Thyssen-Bornemisza de Kászon (1921 – 2002), a noted industrialist and art collector, was a Dutch-born Swiss citizen with a Hungarian title, a legal resident of Monaco for tax purposes, with a declared second residency in the United Kingdom, but in actuality a long-time resident of Spain.

He was born in Scheveningen, Netherlands, the son of Heinrich Baron Thyssen-Bornemisza de Kászon and his first wife, Baroness Margit Bornemisza de Kászon. The Thyssen family's fortune was built upon a steel and armaments empire: Heinrich Thyssen had abandoned Germany as a young man and settled in Hungary in 1905.

In Budapest, Heinrich married the daughter of the king's chamberlain, who, having no sons of his own, adopted Heinrich and passed on his barony to him. The passing along of the title has raised numerous questions over whether Heinrich Thyssen could actually call himself baron at all.

His wives:

1. 1946, Austrian aristocrat Princess Teresa Amalia Franziska Elisabeth Maria of the Lippe-Weissenfeld. Their only child was Georg Heinrich (born 1950). They divorced 14 May 1954, and she married in 1960, as her second husband, Friedrich Maximilian, Prince of Fürstenberg.

2. 1954, Anglo-Indian fashion model Nina Dyer; they had no children and were divorced in 1956. She later married and divorced His Highness Prince Sadruddhin Aga Khan and committed suicide in 1965.

3. 1956, New Zealand-born British fashion model Fiona Frances Elaine Campbell-Walter (born 1932). She was a daughter of Rear-Admiral Keith McNeil Walter (later Campbell-Walter) and his wife, Frances Henriette Campbell. They had Francesca and a son, Lorne. (Princess Louise of Great Britain's husband was the Marquis of Lorne, later Duke of Argyll, with the surname Lorne--was there a family connection there?) They divorced on 20 January 1965.

4. 1967, Denise Shorto, a Brazilian banker's daughter. They had one son, Alexander, and divorced in November 29, 1984, after an acrimonious four-year battle.

5. 1985, María del Carmen Rosario Cervera Fernández de la Guerra, popularly known as Carmen "Tita" Cervera, who was Miss Spain of 1961. He adopted her son, Borja (born 1980, father unknown). In 1965, she had married Lex Barker, an American actor and socialite best known for his portrayal of Tarzan. He had previously been married to Lana Turner and Arlene Dahl. Tita had won an out-of-court settlement in the mid-1970s which effectively left Barker’s youngest son, Christopher, disinherited.

Tita didn't stop there--As part of an attempt to dissolve a trust and thereby gain control of her third husband’s assets, she cast doubt on the paternity of Georg Heinrich von Thyssen-Bornemisza, the Baron's eldest son, alleging that his father was actually Count Iván Batthyány de Német-Ujvár, the husband of Thyssen's sister, Margit: however, a settlement was reached between the parties before the baron's death in Sant Feliu de Guixols, Catalonia, Spain, which brought to a "peaceable" conclusion the wrangling over control of the vast Thyssen art collection, which will remain in Spain.

Francesca's mother had her loves as well--after the divorce she she went on to have a well-publicized relationship with Greek shipping heir Alexander Onassis, the only son of Aristotle Onassis.  Aristotle strongly disapproved of both Fiona and the relationship. It is believed now that Alexander had intentions of marrying her despite his father's energetic attempts to break them up. She was forty years old and Alexander was 24 during their relationship. Alexander died in a plane crash in 1973 at age 25.
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Offline grandduchessella

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Re: Archduke Otto (1912-2011) and his family
« Reply #43 on: August 02, 2007, 09:10:54 AM »
The famed columnist Taki wrote this about Baron Henri:

Like many very, very rich men, Heini Thyssen was very much a bore. I first met him when I was still a teenager, on the Riviera, where else? He was a good-looking man, but lugubrious and almost Dracula-- like at times. And, like Dracula, he had good taste in women. Certainly in the beginning. His first wife, the present Princess Teresa von Furstenberg, is a grand lady of impeccable credentials and impeccable behaviour. I have never met her, but I hear from my father-in-law that they don't come any grander. (Except for himself, that is.) Due to a family feud over the root of all envy, Teresa's name was recently dragged through the mud, but it simply wasn't on. It was like saying Margaret Thatcher went to war against the Argies because her husband owned Falkland Islands stocks. Which is what an Argentine professor of economics told me at the time of the war in Buenos Aires. Heini junior was certainly Heini's and Teresa's son, and he has lived an extremely quiet and useful life.

Then came Nina Dyer, an Anglo-Indian of exotic looks but Sapphic tastes. There were no children and Nina committed suicide later on. I put the moves on Nina, but got as far as Mussolini did against Greece. His third wife, Fiona, was the great beauty, and still is, 50 years after he married her. (There were two children.) Denise, his fourth wife, whom I knew when we were both very young - she tried her damnest to break up my first marriage, and succeeded - turned out to be the most controversial. After some years of married bliss, Denise became awfully chummy with one Franco Rapetti, an extremely good-looking blond Italian adventurer from Genoa. Heini played possum while the two love birds frolicked. Then Denise gave birth to a son, Franco threw himself out of a window in the Bagel, and Heini paid to fly his body back to Italy on a private jet. `Did he jump or was he pushed?' wrote yours truly 25 years ago. The last thing Rapetti told me - loudly and in public at Isabel Goldsmith's wedding - was, `Go ahead, kill me if you like, I'm not paying.' He owed me and others lotsa moolah from a poker game that had got out of hand, and I had bailed him out at the time. Once he got connected with Denise I asked for it back. This was his answer.

Never mind. All I know is I didn't push him, nor did Heini, in fact, although he got the credit for it. Franco was living on coke and had a paranoiac coke fit. He was convinced people were trying to kill him, and maybe they were. So he jumped, and people began to fear Heini Thyssen. Despite his newly acquired reputation as a tough guy, Heini remained a terrific bore. When I had Bruern Abbey, in Oxfordshire, he was nearby, at Daylesford, the old Rothermere house, now owned by Sir Anthony Bamford. He used to drop round, a lonely man, sit in my drawing-room, observe the high jinks, drink non-stop and say very little. This is why he always had trouble with women. A wife will accept anything, lovers, drinking, drugs, but never boredom. Bore your wife and soon there will be someone else in her bed, no ifs or buts about it, and Heini bored for Holland, where he was born, Switzerland, where he lived, Hungary, where he picked up a title, and Spain, where he ended his life.

And speaking of Hungary, Thyssen was known throughout his life as Baron Thyssen, somewhat a misnomer. Heini's grandfather, August Thyssen, was of peasant stock who built a chicken-wire business into a steel and armaments empire. Heini's father, Heinrich, settled in Hungary and married the daughter of the king's chamberlain, who passed on a baronial title to his son-in-law. Whether courtiers can pass on titles to their sons-in-law is at best questionable. It's as if I called myself Prince Taki, because my father-in-law is a Serene Highness, and, in Heini's case, the guy was just a Hungarian baron, a dime a dozen in the land of goulash.

Again, never mind. As long as I can remember, the wrong people sucked up to Heini, mostly art dealers and hustlers. His great achievement was his art collection, a fabled one that rivals the Queen's. But he blew it at the end by choosing to sue Heini junior on the advice of his fifth wife, Tita, a one-time Miss Spain. Heini teased everyone, from Prince Charles to King Juan-- Carlos to the President of Switzerland (whoever he or she is) as to which country would get to house his collection. Spain won out in the end, but at a price: Tita, the widow. All I can say is I'd hate to have been born a Thyssen and see it all go to Tita at the end. Even some of it.
They also serve who only stand and wait--John Milton
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Offline Lucien

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Re: Archduke Otto (1912-2011) and his family
« Reply #44 on: November 19, 2007, 12:39:21 PM »
HI&RH Archduke Otto celebrates his 95th birthday tomorrow,november 20th.
Je Maintiendrai