Author Topic: Romanov and Bulgaria  (Read 78282 times)

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Offline Margarita Markovna

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Re: Romanov and Bulgaria
« Reply #45 on: January 05, 2006, 02:16:28 PM »
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You are right, it does not prove that they were alive. And even today in 2006 their bodies have not been found anywhere in Russia. This gives the store about their survival more and more credability.


Not necessarily. Unless the bodies were buried in the clay-like earth that the others were, they would have rotted long, long ago.

Offline Holly

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Re: Romanov and Bulgaria
« Reply #46 on: January 05, 2006, 04:32:35 PM »
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You are right, it does not prove that they were alive. And even today in 2006 their bodies have not been found anywhere in Russia. This gives the store about their survival more and more credability.

Uhh...nope sorry it doesn't. I think thats just wishful thinking on your part. They were buried where no one has dug yet.
"Господь им дал дар по молитвам их размягчать окаменелые наши сердца за их страдания..Мне думается, что если люди будут молиться Царской Cемье, оттают сердца с Божией помощью."

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Offline popov_2000

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Re: Romanov and Bulgaria
« Reply #47 on: January 05, 2006, 05:27:28 PM »
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Uhh...nope sorry it doesn't. I think thats just wishful thinking on your part. They were buried where no one has dug yet.



You know, you can believe what you want to and I can believe what I want to.
You can never convince me, just like I can never convince you.
I will be convinced that the bodies in Bulgaria are not the bodies of Grand Duchess Anastasia and her brother Alexis only if their bodies are found in Russia or a DNA test proves that they are not theirs. Until then I believe that everything points to the fact that they are the Royal children. Anybody else can think what he/she want to think.

Offline Margarita Markovna

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Re: Romanov and Bulgaria
« Reply #48 on: January 05, 2006, 05:53:08 PM »
And there's nothing against everyone having their own opinion. But the chances of bodies turning up now are rare to none.

Offline granduchess_leah

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Re: Romanov and Bulgaria
« Reply #49 on: February 01, 2006, 07:52:38 AM »
they do sorta look the same dont they?

Offline popov_2000

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Re: Romanov and Bulgaria
« Reply #50 on: March 08, 2006, 09:22:59 PM »
Here is an article I found. Read it carefully to understand it:

The Bulgarian Anastasia?
Part I

Myths and reality
The deeper I dig in my memory of the past, the more convinced I get that some moments from the life and social contacts of Nora, Zhudin and the Doctor remained hidden for Gabarevites, and hence they made up their explanation-myths. I would like to set them apart from real facts.

The first myth: The three of them avoided any meetings or contacts with their compatriots – high-ranking whiteguard officers in emigration lived in the International Red Cross boarding house in the village of Shipka, Kazanlak district. But on pictures taken in 1928-29 they, together with their ever-present dog, are in front of the temple-monument among their compatriots.

The second myth: Nora was haughty and did not associate with the local people. Absolutely untrue. Stefan Djenanov, son of one of the Gabarevo notables, told me that in 1931-32 he, his two brothers and his sister Anka were in the same company as Nora and Dr. Alexiev, in the summertime they hiked in the Stara Planina, went for picnics by the river Tundja, on holidays they went to the dances in Pavel Banya. For years on end Nora eagerly associated with the intelligentsia and the village women in Gabarevo. There are pictures of her participation in the machine embroidery contest, organized by Singer, of the opening of the Karlovo-Tulovo railway line, etc. I managed to trace down the address of Anka Djenanova-Smith, who studied dentistry in Germany during the war, married an American officer and lives in Georgia, USA. In a beautiful Bulgarian language she wrote me touching memories of Nora, including the fact that she sent Nora music scores, and strings for Dr. Alexiev’s guitar.

The third myth: After the coming of the Red Army to Bulgaria, Nora panicked and closed herself up at home like a hermit. This is a downright fabrication. Eyewitnesses told me that when Russian troops were quartered in the village, among whom two women – a nurse and a pharmacist, Nora met with them and together with other women from Gabarevo they spent unforgettable hours!

It is true that in the late 1940s Nora withdrew into herself, but the reasons were hardly political. Because in a period of acute political suspiciousness and “alertness’ Gabarevites never treated her and Dr. Alexiev as white-emigrants or, God forbid, as “class enemies”. The Gabarevo intelligentsia was up to par! With its pronounced Russophile convictions and broadness they would not encroach on some of the most useful and respected persons in the village. As far as the common villagers are concerned, I have heard they treated Nora with extreme respect. They even stopped their carts when they met her in the street, to make way for her.

The fourth myth: During her 32-year stay in the village, Nora “did not leave the boundaries of Gabarevo”. There is definite evidence that in 1936, during the Olympic Games in Berlin she went there and stayed for almost a year. The version was that the rose-oil merchant from Gabrovo Lalyu Kolev and his wife, the German Elka, invited her to paint pictures of their home. In October 1939 she left for Sofia to be a witness in the wedding of Lalka, daughter of a Gabarevo woman who was close to her. She made her a wonderful wedding gift – a dinner set of Bavarian porcelain, which Lalka keeps as a family relic. When I saw it at her home I thought: “How fragile are human beings! The porcelain survived, whereas Nora turned to dust long ago.” Nora often visited the young couple in Sofia, she visited museums, libraries, went to the theater, opera, concerts, maintained contacts with certain publishers for which she translated from French.

The fifth myth: Perhaps it is closest to reality. There was talk in the village that she took opium. I never saw her do it. I only remember she smoked long cigarettes with a peculiar smell and the stub-filled ashtrays in her home. However, from students who had been longer around her, I found out that every autumn she received from the Petrich district a chocolate-like extract of poppy, like a cake of soap. She made small balls of it and swallowed them. Now I realize that certain critical moments that came over her ever more often – absent-mindedness, depression, irritation, insomnia, tremor of the hands – were probably symptoms of narcotic abstinence.

In the last years of her life Nora looked like a woman dying slowly and painfully of some hidden suffering. Bad heart, climacteric agony of an unfulfilled woman, drug addiction, incurable nostalgia for everything taken away from her in her youth, or the nightmares that drove her to walk at night as a somnambulist? Who haunted her dreams? I think nobody understood. But even hidden behind the curtain of social life, Nora left an imprint with her intellect – sometimes she was asked to design the sets for a play, to make up the amateur actors. And if in the Kazanlak secondary schools they said that of all village students the Gabarevo children are best prepared in languages and mathematics, it was doubtlessly due to the lessons with Madam Nora!

Link:
http://www.diplomatic-bg.com/c2/content/view/471/47/1/0/

Offline popov_2000

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Re: Romanov and Bulgaria
« Reply #51 on: March 08, 2006, 09:24:00 PM »
The Bulgarian Anastasia?
Part II

How long will the truth be concealed?
After I made sure that at least until the early 1940s Nora maintained active social contacts, I was tortured by the question: If she was Anastasia, was it possible that she did not confide her secret with anyone? And I am becoming convinced that she did. Moreover, she desperately sought a way to hint it was high time to identify her, especially if she found out about the imposter Anna Anderson. But nobody read her gestures. In those years the truth would have been so dangerous and shocking that nobody would dare believe it and support it. Before many of her students she started “dropping” phrases full of suggestion: that she had lived in a royal palace, bathed in a golden tub, maids dressed her, brushed her hair and cut her nails. Here is how her painting of flowers of the field, presented by Nora to Stefanka Nestorova, was interpreted by people obsessed by her mystery: poppy – Maria, oats – Olga, gentian – Tatyana, scilla (“vasilyok”) – Tsarevich, chamomile (“romashka”) – the Romanovs. With this painting Sherlock Holmes would have perhaps identified Anastasia immediately. Unlike modern investigators who prefer to keep proud (or perhaps guilty) silence?!

One more thing, bearing in mind that traditionally Russian aristocracy officially spoke in French, it struck me as odd that it had a command of the German language “as a mother tongue”. For Anastasia, however, it would be understandable as the Tsarina Mother, Alexandra Fyodorovna was the German Princess Alix von Hessen-Darmstadt. The fact that no one remembers Nora teaching German may mean that she knew it well as a spoken language but not grammatically. What about her love for the dogs – Rex, Tangra, Beba, Jimmy, Johnny? Beautiful, pedigree, they accompanied her throughout her life. Is not the dog for her a symbol of her saved life, after on the boat a dog died of the bullet meant for her? Blagoy Emanuilov made an anagram of the name of the cocker spaniel Maron (Prince Alexey had the same dog!) that belonged to her and Georges and obtained Roman! Isn’t this a hint at their descent?

But the most probable clue was Vasilka Kerteva. Was she not Nora’s ambassador, a cry for help to her Motherland not to bury her, to remember her? Unfortunately, Nora’s closest friends – Lotte, Kerteva, Anka, Lalka are not living to give answers to many questions. For example, Nora’s stay in Berlin for almost a year is very strange. I find it hard to believe that a proud and worthy person like Nora would go in the role of “domestic” painter for some Bulgarian parvenu! Did not she go with the hope that the Germans had saved her mother and other members of her family and she could find them under their legalizing legends? By the way, the Italian newspaper Stampa launched the version that as a result of a Bolshevik-Monarchist plot the Emperor’s family was taken out of the country and lived scattered in exile in full secret. This could explain the superficially absurd attempts to make the bodies of the tsar’s family unfit for identification by spilling acid and burning them, even though all Russia knew about their execution. If all beads of coincidences are put in a string, maybe they can justify Nora’s depression in the last years of her life when she found out that actually no one in her country was interested in her and they would rather consider her dead. “To date the Russians wouldn’t admit that the bones of two of the children of Nikolay II have not been found and the Russian press continues to circulate the version that the two missing skeletons were found and burnt in a separate grave,” examining magistrate Emanuilov says.

As a journalist and public figure, I am also surprised that Russia showed no interest in the two exhumations in Gabarevo. Here is what Dr. Nyagolov said: “I wrote about it, repeatedly, to monarchic societies in Russia. Some of them did not answer at all, and those which bothered to answer advised us to abandon this issue or said they were not interested. This makes me think that perhaps they already know the truth about Alexey and Anastasia. But since now there is access to the secret archives I see no reason why the truth should be hidden, whatever it is!”

I don’t know how much difficulties and negative emotions this digging in the graves brought to the researchers. To me even digging in the memory brought me pain. Because from the perspective of my age I realized: Whether she was Princess Anastasia or the Polish Countess Eleonora, Madam Nora was a cruelly deprived woman. Extracted from her natural environment, banned far away from her motherland, forced to marry an unloved man, fallen a pray to drugs, she left this world embittered by human tactlessness, envy, ignorance and ungratefulness – lonely and unappreciated. Her fate is actually part of the drama of thousands of human beings, which became victims of the social clashes of the tumultuous twentieth century. And as I am writing for the diplomatic circles, I would like to call upon the people working on the diplomatic front, when they sit around a table for any kind of negotiations and take the pen, to think before they put their signature, because maybe thereby they trace the fates of thousands of people. Yet, the whole life of Nora in the little sub-Balkan village is a proof that a noble, erudite and generously gifted personality, even when history deprived her of any chance, would always find a way to leave a deep mark.

Link:
http://www.diplomatic-bg.com/c2/content/view/471/47/1/1/

Offline Missy-T

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Re: Romanov and Bulgaria
« Reply #52 on: March 09, 2006, 03:57:01 AM »
I hardly doubt that she was Anastasia..She don't look like her and her stories don't match with that of the grand duchesses..
Look at this:
Blagoy Emanuilov says and adds, “Near the end of her earthly days Nora often recalled childhood experiences of being bathed in gold baths, and combed and clothed by maids. She mentioned having a princess’s room all by herself and remembered drawings she had made.

Maybe it's just me, but I thought none of the grand duchesses had a golden bathtub..And didn't Alexandra dressed them? And she shared a room with Maria, right? Not all by herself.. Anyway, that's what I heared.

Offline popov_2000

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Re: Romanov and Bulgaria
« Reply #53 on: March 09, 2006, 08:44:26 AM »
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I hardly doubt that she was Anastasia..She don't look like her and her stories don't match with that of the grand duchesses..
Look at this:
Blagoy Emanuilov says and adds, “Near the end of her earthly days Nora often recalled childhood experiences of being bathed in gold baths, and combed and clothed by maids. She mentioned having a princess’s room all by herself and remembered drawings she had made.

Maybe it's just me, but I thought none of the grand duchesses had a golden bathtub..And didn't Alexandra dressed them? And she shared a room with Maria, right? Not all by herself.. Anyway, that's what I heared.


They lived lavished lives and I would not be surprised if they had golden bathtubs. Another explanation might be that this is just a figure of speech to represent how different her life was before and now.

I do not believe that Alexandra dressed all of her five children every single day of their lives. Even if she did, I am not saying she did not, it was not every single day. Just think how long would it take for someone to do that when you have four daughters.

For the room your are right. I do not know how to explain this. Maybe there is something that we do not know. Why does everyone assume that everything about Anastasia is public knowledge. I bet there is more that we do not know.

Offline RealAnastasia

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Re: Romanov and Bulgaria
« Reply #54 on: March 09, 2006, 07:59:14 PM »
The story is interesting. But FA wrote that in THIS "Anastasia Forum"  we can't absolutely post any thread about pretenders.

We have the "Survivors" and "Claimants" Forums for this.

However, I liked very much your story!  ;) I don't believe this bulgarian woman was Anastasia, but it is a great story. Really...

RealAnastasia.

Offline popov_2000

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Re: Romanov and Bulgaria
« Reply #55 on: March 09, 2006, 09:54:28 PM »
If anyone knows how to move this thread to another forum they should do so.

When I first stated this thread I did not know where to place the information, that is why I did it here.

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Re: Romanov and Bulgaria
« Reply #56 on: April 11, 2006, 09:16:10 PM »
Everyone here keep saying how Grand Duchess Anastasia Nikolaevna Romanova and Countess Eleonora Albertov Krueger do not look the same. So I did something.

I e-mailed Professor Sloan R. Williams from The University of Illinois at Chicago. Her education is Ph.D. from Northwestern University. Her field of study includes Physical Anthropology, Human Genetics, DNA Studies in Archaeological Populations.

I e-mailed her two pictured - one of  Grand Duchess Anastasia and another of Countess Eleonora. I asked her if she sees any similarities between the two women. The pictures were small so they were stretched and put on a Word file. This made them a little blurry and unclear, but still visable. She told me that based on these pictures alone she can not be sure. However, there are defiantly similarities between the facial features of Grand Duchess Anastasia and of Countess Eleonora.

This is the opinion of a Professor with a Ph.D. degree from Northwestern University.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by boyar »

Offline dvoretzky

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Re: Romanov and Bulgaria
« Reply #57 on: April 16, 2006, 01:02:09 AM »
Let me add my two cents: I think Nora is NOT Anastasia but she is a Romanov. I mean she must be a descendant of a Romanov (DNA proof), probably the offspring of a morganatic marriage so she doesn't want to boast. Any missing Romanov bastards?

boyar

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Re: Romanov and Bulgaria
« Reply #58 on: April 16, 2006, 08:17:16 AM »
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Let me add my two cents: I think Nora is NOT Anastasia but she is a Romanov. I mean she must be a descendant of a Romanov (DNA proof), probably the offspring of a morganatic marriage so she doesn't want to boast. Any missing Romanov bastards?

Was a DNA test performed? If yes, then when ?

boyar

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Re: Romanov and Bulgaria
« Reply #59 on: October 24, 2006, 08:57:26 PM »
Grand Duchess Anastasia:


Eleonora Albertova: