Author Topic: Imperial Family Jewels  (Read 251870 times)

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Offline Lisa

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Re: Imperial Family Jewels
« Reply #15 on: August 08, 2004, 04:35:24 AM »
It doesn't matter, GrandduchessElla! I often seen these mistakes...

Offline Martyn

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Re: Imperial Family Jewels
« Reply #16 on: August 09, 2004, 09:36:31 AM »
And I too must own up to my mistakes.  In an earlier post I erroneously attributed the Sapphire and diamond tiara to Kochert, who in fact was a jeweller who made the beautiful emerald and diamond ivy leaf parure for Sisi of Austria.
It was in fact Kochli who made the sapphire and diamond tiara that Alix is wearing in Grandduchessella's earlier post.  It was actually part of a parure that comprised necklace, large brooch and bracelets (strangely no earrings).  These jewels were commissioned by Alexander III and Marie Feodorovna in 1894 and were intended for Alix's use.
Also featured in the large photo in which the jewels are laid out, is the Colombian emerald tira which, according to Geoffrey Munn was part of a larger suite of jewels that had been made for Alix and Ella.  Some of these jewels had been made by Faberge; this tiara was in fact made by Bolin.
One of the pearl and diamond tiaras posted earlier is called the "Wave pattern" tiara and has a matching necklace.  There are  a few photos of MF wearing these jewels; could these have been part of her personal collection?
Is it safe to conclude therefore that some of the jewels did actually come from the personal jewels of MF and Alix, or are they all jewels that were designated as crown jewellery?  Sometimes the lines between these two categories can be a little blurred.  Any thoughts?
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Offline Robert_Hall

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Re: Imperial Family Jewels
« Reply #17 on: August 09, 2004, 10:04:38 AM »
I have always been confused as to what actually was "State" and what "personal" property of the Romanovs.
Obviously coronation regalia, otherwise historical pieces & perhaps wedding jewely would be state.
But the personal?  Since all Romanov wealth came from Russia itself, the monopolies, taxes, estates, all were at the disposal of the emperor.  Their 'personal' allowance was in no way to be compared to the modern "civil list".
So when jewelry was commisioned for any reason, it was paid for directly from funds gained directly from the "state" of Russia, in effect at the disposal of the monarch.
Gifts from foreign entities & doweries would be a seperate category. If they were a "gift of state", well, that is self defining isn't it? I reckon most foreign orders, usually heavily jeweled would be in this category.  Wedding gifts ? Who knows? I suppose that would depend on whether it was a gift from the foreign government or the personal gift of a foreign monarch.
When the Soviet gov. nationalised all personal property, no foreign country took an opposition stance, much different than say, Cuba now.
So the argument was rendered moot.
Much the same, when the exiles were selling off what they did get out, the Soviets did not put a great deal of effort to reclaim it. Unlike the post-Shah regime of Iran.
Personally, I do not care who owns what, just as long as they are available for the likes of us to see.  A truely beautiful part of a fascinating history.
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Robert
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Offline Martyn

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Re: Imperial Family Jewels
« Reply #18 on: August 09, 2004, 11:57:29 AM »
You are of course quite right Robert.  For me the issue is slightly different.  I asked the question because there are jewels in the photograph that both Alix and MF wore fairly regularly.  Some of the jewels, such as the Ceylon sapphire tiara were kept in Alix's personal apartments because she was fond of this particular piece and liked to wear it often.
I wonder at the distinction that she made about what she should take away and what she should leave behind; whether some pieces were considered to be hers to keep or whether they may be the property of whomsoever might reign in their stead, that is if that thought was even an issue.
There is no doubt that she saw her jewels as a form of insurance against an uncertain future; the quantity of jewellery that the IF took with them is simply staggering.
'For a galant spirit there can never be defeat'....Wallis Windsor

'The important things is not what they think of me, but what I think of them.'......QV

Dane Romanov

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Re: Imperial Family Jewels
« Reply #19 on: August 16, 2004, 10:21:02 AM »
Hiya i was wondering if anyone had any pictures of any of the romanov women wearing it.

a picture so you know what one i mean :)

http://groups.msn.com/ImperialDynastyTheROMANOVARCHIVES/theglitterthatwas.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=276

Thanks

Offline Olga

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Re: Imperial Family Jewels
« Reply #20 on: August 17, 2004, 04:53:41 AM »

Offline Olga

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Re: Imperial Family Jewels
« Reply #21 on: August 17, 2004, 04:55:06 AM »


The Ears of Wheat tiara that belonged to Maria Fyodorovna, wife of Paul I Petrovich.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by olga »

Offline Olga

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Re: Imperial Family Jewels
« Reply #22 on: August 17, 2004, 05:00:43 AM »


Russian Kokoshnik

Offline Olga

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Re: Imperial Family Jewels
« Reply #23 on: August 17, 2004, 05:09:12 AM »


The tiara that Alexandra Fyodorvna is often seen wearing.




Offline Martyn

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Re: Imperial Family Jewels
« Reply #24 on: August 17, 2004, 05:33:38 AM »
Dane, I have never actually seen a photo of anyone wearing that diamond and pearl tiara but I have to agree, it is really beautiful.
One can only lament the loss of the beautiful jewellery that comprised the State and personal collections of the IF.  
This particular piece was indeed sold by the Soviets in the 1920's when so much of the jewllery was dispersed and it was bought by the Duke of Marlborough for his Duchess Gladys.
I think that this would heve been quite stunning in real life as all the pearls are pendant and would move with the wearer.
According to Geoffrey Munn, this tiara was subsequently sold to Imelda Marcos, of all people, who apparently had it broken up to make smaller, more wearable pieces of jewellery!  What a waste...................
'For a galant spirit there can never be defeat'....Wallis Windsor

'The important things is not what they think of me, but what I think of them.'......QV

Offline gem_10

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Re: Imperial Family Jewels
« Reply #25 on: August 18, 2004, 09:26:29 PM »
Hey! Does anyone of you have pictures of Ella's tiaras and necklaces? I have read somewhere that her emeralds were really beautiful and famous.

Offline Antonio_P.Caballer

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Re: Imperial Family Jewels
« Reply #26 on: August 18, 2004, 09:36:15 PM »
Hello Lunarmaiden,

In another thread someone posted a link to a photo of Barbara Hutton wearing Ella┤s emeralds. Also i saw another earlier photo of a courtesan fron the 1920s wearing those emeralds. I will try to find and post...

here is the photo:

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Antonio_P.Caballer »

Offline Lanie

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Re: Imperial Family Jewels
« Reply #27 on: August 18, 2004, 11:24:46 PM »
THat's Princess Maria of Romania.

Offline Eurohistory

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Re: Imperial Family Jewels
« Reply #28 on: August 18, 2004, 11:49:22 PM »
Indeed she is Marie of Romania, consort of King Alexander I of Yugoslavia and grandmother of the present claimant to that throne, Crown Prince Alexander of Yugoslavia, one of the nicest of royals.

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Offline Martyn

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Re: Imperial Family Jewels
« Reply #29 on: August 19, 2004, 07:00:27 AM »
I am pretty sure that there is another thread that gives details and pictures of some of Ella's jewellery.
Ella's emeralds were given to her upon her marriage and passed to Maria Pavlovna the younger upon her marriage.
She subsequently sold the jewels to Marie of Roumania who gave them to her daughter Princess Marie, Queen of Yugoslavia.  Missy of Roumania, like May of England did quite well aout of the sales of Romanov jewellery.
The tiara still exists in the possession of a well known jeweller (can't remember which) who has removed the cabochon emeralds and replaced them with paste stones.
I'm pretty sure that Barbara Hutton's emeralds were in fact from GDss Vladimir's collection.  These emeralds were supposedly the finest in the family (and there was some competition!) and were mounted as a necklace; Barbara Hutton subsequently had them remounted as a tiara.  There is a wonderful photo in Geoffrey Munn's wonderful tiara book which shows her wearing this tiara, plus some other spectacular jewels but looking a little past her best - the effect is a little strange.
Does anyone know anything about the suite of acquamarines that belonged to Ella?
'For a galant spirit there can never be defeat'....Wallis Windsor

'The important things is not what they think of me, but what I think of them.'......QV