Author Topic: Claimants of the Grand Duke Michael Alexandrovich  (Read 63214 times)

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Offline Douglas

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Re: Claimants of the Grand Duke Michael Alexandrovich
« Reply #105 on: October 15, 2009, 06:23:57 PM »
I return to you the same courtesy....and thank you so kindly.  Warm regards, TD.

Oh, BTW, I did have to change a few items in my previous post.  This has been a rather hectic day.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2009, 06:27:04 PM by Douglas »

aleksandr pavlovich

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Re: Claimants of the Grand Duke Michael Alexandrovich
« Reply #106 on: October 15, 2009, 06:37:03 PM »
No problem, Majesty.  I saw such and added an acknowledgment as an addendum to my original reply (Post #104) to your kind comments !   With best regards,  AP
« Last Edit: October 15, 2009, 06:39:31 PM by aleksandr pavlovich »

Offline Michael HR

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Re: Claimants of the Grand Duke Michael Alexandrovich
« Reply #107 on: October 16, 2009, 05:02:25 AM »
Family trees are great. When I started mine I discovered that my Grand Father's family were Irish, which I did not know and was very surprised. Can't look at a road now without wanting to dig it up! You never know what turns up when you start researching. In the case of the Romanov's only DNA would prove one way or other. While I would love to learn that a son survived, if only to see the look on GD Maria's face, I have difficulty with the fact that this would have been hidden so well for so long. But I wish you well in your research.

Mike
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Offline Sara Ara˙jo

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Re: Claimants of the Grand Duke Michael Alexandrovich
« Reply #108 on: May 19, 2010, 05:33:53 AM »
This one is going to be long...  :)

This is a message I've received yesterday on YouTube:

I am a historian investigator, very involved in a research project regarding the entire Romanov Family.

You answered a question on one of your beautifully done videos on Mikhail. You stated that it is not believed that he escaped.

I can state that he and Nicholas Johnson, his secretary, were not shot by the Bolcheviks in Perm!

Our research has shown Mikhail incarcerated by the Bolcheviks, and then the Soviets, in a gulog in Siberia. He entered into a monestary there, became and became a monk. Research additional shows us that he lived until 1971.

None of the Imperial Family of the Czar were murdered. They were rescued and lived their lives under alias names. There was nothing wrong with the mind of the Dowager Empress Maria Feodorovna, when she said that she knew her son, Nicholas II, and his family were still alive!

Best regards,


To this my reply was:

I'd like to believe that what your research found is true, but evidence seems to show strongly that at least the family members taken to Siberia were indeed killed. I'm not just mentioning the Tsar, his wife and children, but also the Tsarina's sister, Elizabeth Feodorovna, Grand Duke Sergei Mikhailovich as well as Princes John Constantinovich, Constantine Constantinovich, Igor Constantinovich and Vladimir Pavlovich Paley.

You may argue, like many have, that the bodies of the main imperial family are fake and I may disagree. But the one true evidence that at least 6 people were killed by the communists, and those are precisely the Alapaevsk victims, as their bodies were found in September 1918. There are pictures of this bodies, well spread at the time as well as today in several books and the internet. A simple research on Grand Duchess Elizabeth Feodorovna will take you to them.

As for the other Grand Dukes who were killed in the Peter and Paul Fortress, at least one body was found, that of Grand Duke Dmitri Constantinovich. The others were not found, it's true, but why would Grand Duke Paul's family live in extreme poverty, his wife in permanent depression, if he was alive? I don't think from what I've read about him, he would have permitted it.

So I completely disagree that none of the family members died. I can't argue about Mikhail, since it's true that his body was not found, but other than that, I don't believe their story was so simple.

Best regards,

Natalie Paley website:

http://nataliepaley.webs.com/

Offline Sara Ara˙jo

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Re: Claimants of the Grand Duke Michael Alexandrovich
« Reply #109 on: May 19, 2010, 05:34:18 AM »
And he finaly gave me this long reply:

I can prove that your statements are incorrect, with many documents, interviews, and books that would support the evidence of the Imperial Family's rescue.

You and the media, have fallen into the belief of their murders, which is exactly what was intentially planned in the efforts of numerous countries and monarchies across the world, and the agents that aided the Tsar, Tsarina, Tsarevich, Olga, Tatiana, Maria, and Anastasia to safety.

Our commission is working on a documentary that will prove all of this. If you are really interested in what happened to the Imperial Family, and how their execution was intentionally staged, I would suggest the following books and materials that are published information.

You must be very young to have fallen for the fairy tale books and movies that depict the family. I am not being arrogant, simply stating facts. I am a historian investigator, and have worked on this case, as well as claimants cases for 10 years.

Here are my suggestions, along with the sequence that you should consider readings:

"Rescuing The Czar", Published 1920, by James P. Smythe (This is an alias name, his true identity is that of William R. McGarry (American).

"The File On The Tsar", by Summers and Mangold

"Hunt For The Czar", by Guy Richards

"The Rescue of the Romanovs", by Guy Richards

"Imperial Agent", by Guy Richards

There were many reasons why things happend as they did. The intensity of the rescue was, of course, handicapped by WWI. The leverage, however, was in the hands of Kaiser Wilhelm II, first cousin to Tsarina Alexandra Feodorovna (Alix of Hesse). In the below treaty, signed in 1918, included specific demands to release the Imperial Family in exchange for valuable aids of Lenin that were held in Germany. If Lenin did not oblige this treaty, his effort to form a soviet state in Russia would have been a disaster. Obviously you do not agree that an exchange was made, however, it did occur. I know of all the living family, their alias(s) used from people who were already deceased. I also know where they are buried. That were given their nationalities and passports. A requirement was that each individual must completely disappear.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Brest-Litovsk

The governments of the USA, UK, and The Vatican, were all involved in the rescue. The monarchy's of Germany, England, Japan, China (we have evidence that the last Emperor Pu-Yi gave $50,000.00 toward the rescue operation which was successful), Romania, and Italy assisted in this endeavor. Further, the entire operation is still considered 'state secrets' due to the involvement of these governments, as well as what occured behind the Iron Curtain, and 'Cold War' of the West and Soviet Union, until it's demise in December 1991. As you can see, only a few years have past, allowing us to gain entrance into various files concerning this case.

Do you know of this woman?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascalina_Lehnert

The Pontiff Pope Pius XII received both Grand Duchesses Olga and Maria Nicholaevna Romanova in his chambers in 1953, after news of Stalin's death. She met them, as the Pontiff's assistant and administrator. When he died, she destroyed many secret documents. The Vatican was extremely upset with her, and threw her out. What the information above does not explain , is that Sister Lehnert was found dead in a chair at the Vienna Airport. The Holy Sea, has been a protectorate of many political dissidents and royal families.

Now, you may believe what you wish, however, the truth is, Anna Anderson was in fact the Grand Duchess Anastasia Nicholaevna Romanova. She breached the secrecy of the presummed identitiy that she was given,

http://www.peterkurth.com/ANNA-ANASTASIA%20NOTES%20ON%20FRANZISKA%20SCHANZKOWSKA.htm

I strongly recommend that you also read Peter Kurth's book, "Anastasia: The Riddle of Anna Anderson". The Grand Duchess Anastasia had absolutely nothing to hide! She knew exactly who she was! If you know anything about the character of this Grand Duchess, you will learn to understand why we seek the truth!

I can go on with every single daughter, the Tsar, Tsarina, and all those who had a hand in this concealment, however if you have no interst in believing it is a waste of my time. You and the world will soon learn of this escapade, the staging at Ekaterinburg, and the charade that has followed to this day.

I can only tell you of things that are published information. The documentary is still in production, and evidence and interviews are sealed until we go public. What I can share with you are some living people, who are completely aware of exactly what happened: Prince Michael of Kent, Queen Elizabeth II and the House of Windsor, The Vatican, Henry Kissenger, (he opened the 'Chivers Papers in the 1970's), CIA, Princess Maria Vladimirovna, Germany, Italy,Vladimir Putin, and Russia. The indiviuals named are totally aware of this as a known 'state secret'. Can you possiblt imagine what would have happened if the secret was out while there were nuclear war heads facing the USA and the Soviet Union?

If your interest of what really happened to this family is sincere, you will at least, review the materials I can publicly share at this time.

Lastly, I was raised by a Ukranian father whose parents escaped from their home in Odessa during this period. One thing my father always said to me, "Never trust a Russian!". If you prefer to trust what the Russian government is saying to the world about their excavation of those bones, and the notification to the world as such, go ahead.

Best regards,


Since I'm no expert on the claims of survival, what do you think about this?
Natalie Paley website:

http://nataliepaley.webs.com/

aleksandr pavlovich

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Re: Claimants of the Grand Duke Michael Alexandrovich
« Reply #110 on: May 19, 2010, 06:46:56 AM »
 Re Reply 108,109:  Other than the usual "ho-hum" theories espoused here, the reading list is unusually stale, badly out-dated and one-sided, having been regurgitated time and time again.  It is interesting that your correspondent includes BOTH the mysterious and convoluted "Rescuing the Czar" (IMO, a totally laughable volume, quoted at length in Richard's, "The Hunt for the Czar") and the more respectable, but faulty Summers and Mangold volume, which, if my memory serves me correctly, totally disparages the basic premise of the "Smythe" book.  They state that they went through the archives of that author, which his son has/had in storage in Florida, finding (again if I remember correctly) that it was an obvious attempt to sell the tale for potential movie rights, and even quote US Secretary of State Henry Kissinger's comment (obliquely sought in a mid-air flight at their request) that heavily/bluntly puts down the essential premise ("rescue," so-called US secret State Dept. "Romanov File, " etc.) of the "Smythe," et al. volumes.  All in all, this person may state whatever opinion he wishes, but seems sadly mis-led/biased. I wonder what his "bottom-line" is, fiscally? The "documentary"?  I personally would not further waste my time in these theories.   AP
« Last Edit: May 19, 2010, 07:08:27 AM by aleksandr pavlovich »

Offline Kalafrana

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Re: Claimants of the Grand Duke Michael Alexandrovich
« Reply #111 on: May 19, 2010, 07:23:41 AM »
It all sounds inherently unlikely.

But let's start from first principles. Where does the accepted account of the murder of Mikhail and Brian Johnson come from? A member of the execution squad - why would he lie? when was he writing, and what in? I'm asking the last question because I don't know.

No bodies have ever been found. But on a practical level I think the bodies being eaten by wolves is entirely plausible.


Why no investigation? When did the Whites reach Perm, and how long did they hold it for? We have to recall that the Czech Legion reached Ekaterinburg only a week after the massacre, and held it for almost a year - plenty of time to investigate? Also the family were known to be in Ekaterinburg. Was Mikhail known to be in Perm? And Nicholas and family were a good deal more newsworthy than Mikhail.

I agree with the point made earlier that if Mikhail had got out of Russia he would have made contact with his family - and remember that he not only had a wife and child, he also had two sisters of whom he was fond, as well as his mother. If he had stayed in hiding in Russia, communications would obviously have been difficult, but somehow the idea just seems unlikely.

As to 'Mikhail's grandson' Emmanuel, it again sounds inherently unlikely. I could buy the idea of Natalie being pregnant when she left Russia, if that was what was claimed. How exactly did she get out and when? I know George Brassov left with his governess posing as his mother. And since George's existence was not concealed, surely there was no reason to conceal a second child.

As far as the Stuart element is concerned, the Stuart's were not a prolific dynasty - a particularly high proportion died childless. To go back a bit, Mary Queen of Scots was until the birth of her son the only living legitimate descendant of James II (1437-60). The nearest alternative heirs were the Earls of Arran, descended from James II's sister. James VI and I was an only child. The Stuart male line then goes through Charles I and James II to the Old Pretender and his sons, ending with the death of the Cardinal Duke of York in 1807. Every other possible Stuart descendant descends either through female lines (and so is not called Stuart), or possibly from illegitimate issue of the Stewart kings, of whom there were quite a few, but I don't know how many left male line descendants.

Ann

aleksandr pavlovich

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Re: Claimants of the Grand Duke Michael Alexandrovich
« Reply #112 on: May 19, 2010, 07:49:05 AM »
Hello, Ann:  Not having my references in front of me (but they can be found easily in any standard work/s about the GD), the reports were written by the assassins, one of whom had trouble with faulty ammunition in carrying out the deed.  One of the assassins was later seen wearing Johnson's watch. A speculative thought that arises from time to time, is that the bodies were later disposed of in a near-by blast furnace, but I have never seen this theory enhanced.  Regards, AP
« Last Edit: May 19, 2010, 07:50:48 AM by aleksandr pavlovich »

Offline Michael HR

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Re: Claimants of the Grand Duke Michael Alexandrovich
« Reply #113 on: May 19, 2010, 01:29:00 PM »
I have to agree that if GD Michael had somehow survived he would have made some sort of contact with the Imperial family in exile. I understand that there are now searches taking place where they think the murder took place. Perhaps something will be found. I hope so as I rather liked Michael and would like to see him laid to rest properly. I think he was the best of the family had had vision based on the needs of Russia rather than just the crown.
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tutsi

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Re: Claimants of the Grand Duke Michael Alexandrovich
« Reply #114 on: May 25, 2010, 01:50:54 AM »
Well then, what do you all think of this official statement from the Romanovs on 24th February 2010?....

 
2010-02-24 16:18:00
House of Romanovs wants royal remains to be re-examined
Moscow, February 24, Interfax - The House of Romanovs has said it wants to re-examine what is thought to be the remains of the last Russian Tsar Nicholas II and his family found in Yekaterinburg.

"Unfortunately, there is too much confusion in this case and some serious errors were made when the Yekaterinburg remains were being identified," Prince Georgy Mikhailovich, the son of the Romanovs' House head Grand Duchess Maria Vladimirovna, told Interfax on Wednesday.

"Many of the facts uncovered suggest that the Commission was staging a political show for a date, rather than working to establish the truth," Romanov said.

The remains were buried in St. Petersburg in 1998 in haste and in defiance of the opinion of the Russian Orthodox Church and the House of Romanovs, he said.

"No satisfactory answers have been provided to the ten questions, formulated by independent scholars and referred to the Commission back in 1998 by the late Russian Orthodox Patriarch Alexy II. Meanwhile, those were questions, which interested not only experts, but also people and millions of believers. The Church needed to console these people instead of leaving them with a feeling of having been deceived. The Commission did not care. There was a farce instead of an act of repentance and purification," he said.

The remains' authenticity must be further studied, Romanov said.


Offline Carolath Habsburg

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Re: Claimants of the Grand Duke Michael Alexandrovich
« Reply #115 on: May 28, 2010, 09:26:45 AM »
Today looking for info i stumble upon this link which says that Mikhail survived nand became a monk. The website has pages and if you have google chrome you can easily translate it

http://solovkymemorial.ru/tprcsv.htm

This story was previously posted here but the link posted are not longer online and there was no pictures about the supposed "monk Misha"

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"...Пусть он землю бережет родную, А любовь Катюша сбережет....". Grand Duchess Ekaterina Fyodorovna to Grand Duke Georgiy Alexandrovich. 1914

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aleksandr pavlovich

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Re: Claimants of the Grand Duke Michael Alexandrovich
« Reply #116 on: May 28, 2010, 11:27:21 AM »
Response to Reply # 115:  Thanks for the web-site link.  Interesting, BUT..........as long as the remains of the body of GD Michael A. are not present in some form, there will ALWAYS be speculation on the survival of the "Emperor for a Day."  Potentially, if the DNA of the religious individual was available for examination, it MIGHT be useful in this case.  Regards,  AP.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2010, 11:32:57 AM by aleksandr pavlovich »

tutsi

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Re: Claimants of the Grand Duke Michael Alexandrovich
« Reply #117 on: June 05, 2010, 09:27:08 PM »
How weird. My father showed me a beautiful sword he has many years ago and told me it belonged to Prince Michael. It is very beautiful. I wonder if it really is the sword that belonged to Prince Michael or not...IF its true would it really be possible for him to have purchased this at auction which is the standard answer I get when ever I ask how he came to have such things as this....hmm... Most probably its not Prince Michaels because it would one think stay in the family and how could this be true when my father is just a simple carpenter and his surname is Usov. Even weirder he says one of his ancestors won the town of Usov in Russia in a card game. Nothing about how he came to have such things makes sense to me.. I think I'll change my name to Smith...lol...or maybe DeNote.....Its most probably all just a big story and no truth to it at all.