Author Topic: Winter Palace  (Read 55597 times)

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Offline mclisa

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Winter Palace
« on: January 23, 2006, 10:32:46 AM »
In "The Winter Palace, Saint Petersburg."  the water color of the Winter Palace church, also called the private chapel in other sources, is called "The Church of the Holy Encounter."  I can't identify this name with anything in Western Christian iconography.

Can someone please tell me the Russian name of the church/chapel? I read Russian letters, so it doesn't have to be transliterated.  If anyone knows an alternative name in English, I'd like that as well.

Thanks!  

McLisa

Offline xirbis

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Re: Winter Palace
« Reply #1 on: January 23, 2006, 02:23:28 PM »
Must be "Sretenie" in Church-Slavonic, or "the Encounter of Our Lord with the Righteous Symeon and Anna in the Temple of Jerusalem". Named apparently after one of the Great 12 Feasts of the Orthodox Church, celebrated on the 2d of February (Gregorian Calendar). The Feast commemorates the event of meeting between Child Jesus, Our Lady and the righteous Elders Symeon and Anna, described in the Gospel of Luke. It took place 40 days after the Nativity. The Mother (Our Lady Ever Virgin Mary)  followed the law prescribing mothers to take part in a purification ceremony 40 days after a childbirth. The rudiment of this Old Testament practise is present in Orthodox Church's practise even today - see the Evhologion, or Trebnik, or The Book of Needs - the ritual of "Prayer over the mother on the 40Th day after childbirth" - precedes or follows the Ritual of baptism.

Offline mclisa

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Re: Winter Palace
« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2006, 02:45:07 PM »
Thank you!  This event is normally called The Presentation (in the Temple) in English, and less commonly The Purification (of the Virgin.) The February 2nd date proves it.

I can't blame the translator for giving the literal English translation of the Slavonic title, and not realizing that the feast is called by a different name in English.

Bolshoe spasibo!
McLisa

Offline Mike

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Re: Winter Palace
« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2006, 02:47:10 PM »
This chapel was usually referred to as the Small Church, but its official name was Tserkov' Sreteniya Gospodnya  - Candlemas Church, isn't it?

Offline mclisa

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Re: Winter Palace
« Reply #4 on: January 24, 2006, 07:34:28 AM »
Thanks, Mike. Candlemas is of course the colloquial name for this feast in English, since it was customary in pre-Reformation England to bless candles for the coming church year on this date.

McLisa

David_Pritchard

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Re: Winter Palace
« Reply #5 on: January 24, 2006, 11:00:24 AM »
While we are on this topic, what is the name for the large church in the Winter Palace that is now used as an exhibition hall? Maybe this is the same church but I surely would not describe it as small.  

I have only noticed one church dome on the roof of the Winter Palace, to which church or chapel does it belong?

David

Offline pers

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Re: Winter Palace
« Reply #6 on: January 24, 2006, 11:11:45 AM »
No, it is not the same one.  The one under discussion is close to the private apartments of Nicholas and Alexandra in the Winter Palace.

Offline mclisa

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Re: Winter Palace
« Reply #7 on: January 24, 2006, 12:20:07 PM »
The dome is over the Winter Palace Cathedral, which is indeed used as an exhibition room.  The museum website even dwells on the fact! Its dedication is to The Savior Not Made By Hands (among other translations I've seen.) This name has no standard English form. It refers to the icon derived from what the Western church called "Veronica's veil."  According to a legend which isn't mentioned in the Gospels, a woman from the crowd wiped Jesus's face with her veil as he was carrying the cross.  The cloth retained a miraculous image of his face.
McLisa

David_Pritchard

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Re: Winter Palace
« Reply #8 on: January 24, 2006, 01:18:26 PM »
Quote
The dome is over the Winter Palace Cathedral, which is indeed used as an exhibition room.  The museum website even dwells on the fact! Its dedication is to The Savior Not Made By Hands (among other translations I've seen.) This name has no standard English form. It refers to the icon derived from what the Western church called "Veronica's veil."  According to a legend which isn't mentioned in the Gospels, a woman from the crowd wiped Jesus's face with her veil as he was carrying the cross.  The cloth retained a miraculous image of his face.


In Orthodox iconography the story of The Face Made Not With Hands is different from that of the Catholic story of Veronica's Veil but with the same outcome, that is an image of Jesus on a cloth.

The miraculous impression of the face of Christ was found in Edessa in 544 and sent to Constantinople in 547. The story behind the origin of this image is that a king in Asia Minor heard of the miracles and teachings of Jesus and that he sent his court painter to the Holy Land to paint a picture of the miraculous prophet. When the painter found Jesus he became very nervous in Christ's presence and was unable to paint with shaky hands, Jesus noticed his dillema and walked over, took the canvas and simply pressed his face against it leaving the impression or portrait 'not made with hands.'

This icon is very popular among the Old Believers.

David

Offline Mike

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Re: Winter Palace
« Reply #9 on: January 24, 2006, 02:42:01 PM »
The full name of the Winter Palace's large church is Sobor Spasa Nerukotvornogo Obraza. The Russian work nerukotvornyj has a wider and deeper meaning than "made not with hands". In Russian cultural context it's usually associated with Pushkin's Exegi Monumentum.  Vladimir Nabokov translates nerukotvornyj (as used by Pushkin) as "unforged".

Probably the church name should better be translated as Cathedral of Saviour's Miraculous Image.

Offline mclisa

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Re: Winter Palace
« Reply #10 on: January 24, 2006, 02:46:29 PM »
Thank you, David! That glow in the direction of the U.S. Midwest is me, blushing. :) While I was aware of the Mandylion, ie. the Holy Face of Edessa, and indeed should have stopped to think about the difference, I managed to get confused and misstate the facts about the Orthodox icon.  

Thank you also for the Russian name.  
McLisa

David_Pritchard

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Re: Winter Palace
« Reply #11 on: January 29, 2006, 12:51:57 PM »
Quote
The dome is over the Winter Palace Cathedral, which is indeed used as an exhibition room.  The museum website even dwells on the fact! Its dedication is to The Savior Not Made By Hands (among other translations I've seen.) This name has no standard English form. It refers to the icon derived from what the Western church called "Veronica's veil."  According to a legend which isn't mentioned in the Gospels, a woman from the crowd wiped Jesus's face with her veil as he was carrying the cross.  The cloth retained a miraculous image of his face.


A photograph of the Cathedral Not Made With Hands in its present state:



Offline Dctalk3185

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Re: Winter Palace
« Reply #12 on: March 13, 2006, 10:43:30 PM »
Hi all!

This is my first post! I was just wondering if anyone knows if the Chapel was where Grand Duke Serge and Ella were married, as well as were Nick and Alex were wed. I read the book Nicholas and Alexandra which said that Serge and Ella were married in a chapel in the Winter Palace. I just wanted it confirmed that it was this chapel (and only from what I can see). Thank You

cheers!


Inseparable to the end

Offline mclisa

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Re: Winter Palace
« Reply #13 on: March 14, 2006, 02:16:59 PM »
Both couples were married in the Winter Palace Church. This is not the same as the chapel, which is off the Rotunda near Nicholas and Alexandra's apartments in the Winter Palace. The Church is on the other side of the palace.  

There are plans of the Winter Palace on this site in various topics which will show you where the two are located.

Welcome aboard!

McLisa

Offline hikaru

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Re: Winter Palace
« Reply #14 on: March 29, 2006, 10:32:16 PM »
Catherine the Great ordered to make a sauna just under the Big Churche.
She met her lovers orten there :)