Author Topic: Since she wasn't Anastasia.....  (Read 19869 times)

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Offline Annie

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Since she wasn't Anastasia.....
« on: January 26, 2006, 10:07:14 AM »
HOW did she get her 'memories?'

We know now because of DNA that AA was certainly NOT AN. This means that any 'memories' she had were not her own. How do you think he acquired these? Obviously, someone had to have told her, either intentionally or incidently in conversation. She may also have very likely studied writings about the family.

I would especially like to ask those who post that they don't think AA was AN, yet continue to debunk any chance she was fed memories, to please explain how you think this is possible. If you don't believe she was AN, she had to have had some kind of informant, right? So why fight it?

Offline Margarita Markovna

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Re: Since she wasn't Anastasia.....
« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2006, 10:52:14 AM »
I have a couple of questions on this topic:

What was published to the public about the life of the Imperial family? Were there books, newspapers, magazines that told about daily life?

Can one tell when they look at a black and white photo, according to the shades of grey, around what color it is?

Offline Annie

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Re: Since she wasn't Anastasia.....
« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2006, 11:29:39 AM »
Books on the IF by Anna Vyrobova, Sophie Buxhoevedon, Lili Dehn and Gilliard were all published in the 1920's. There is another book that FA once mentioned that was published in 1926 that was supposed to contain about 80% of her 'memories.' I really feel that actual people and not books were her main source of info, could be both.

One more thing someone once asked that I want to know is, WHO verified her 'memories' as true or false? Who were these people, and how did THEY know?

ChatNoir

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Re: Since she wasn't Anastasia.....
« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2006, 12:53:17 PM »
Already in the asylum, she impressed the nurses with her knowledge of the Imperial Court and  Russian military matters. And she talked about the Kaiser as if she knew him personally.
Aside from all "information" that was alledgedly "fed" her, when did she have time to study Russian, English, and French? Who taught her to play the piano, play tennis, embroider and paint? And how did she become so accustomed to court etiquette that she never made a mistake? She must have been a VERY busy student.
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Offline Annie

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Re: Since she wasn't Anastasia.....
« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2006, 01:09:22 PM »
Quote
Already in the asylum, she impressed the nurses with her knowledge of the Imperial Court and  Russian military matters. And she talked about the Kaiser as if she knew him personally.
Aside from all "information" that was alledgedly "fed" her, when did she have time to study Russian, English, and French? Who taught her to play the piano, play tennis, embroider and paint? And how did she become so accustomed to court etiquette that she never made a mistake? She must have been a VERY busy student.
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Chat Noir


She did NOT show all these skills while in the asylum.

When Felix Yussoupov met her in 1927, he said he spoke to her in four languages and she only answered in German. Anastasia would have known the others, and even better. This was one big reason he denounced her, besides the fact that he could see with his own eyes it wasn't his wife's cousin.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Annie »

ChatNoir

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Re: Since she wasn't Anastasia.....
« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2006, 01:40:51 PM »
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She did NOT show all these skills while in the asylum.


And how do you know this? Haven't you read the testimony of the nurses there?
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Offline Annie

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Re: Since she wasn't Anastasia.....
« Reply #6 on: January 26, 2006, 01:52:08 PM »
All I know is that they claimed she spoke Russian in her sleep. These were German ladies who may not have known Russian from some Polish or Kachubian (or whatever that dialect is) I know as an American I likely couldn't tell Russian from a Polish dialect as someone mumbled it in their sleep. It was documented years later that she didn't know English and French, Yussoupov said this in 1927. His wife was first cousins with Anastasia and he knew her.

I don't hardly think she played any tennis or piano in the asylum. If she painted or did embrodiery, that was very common for young girls in those days to learn, even in the US. That doesn't mean a thing.

This thread was on the already drawn conclusion that she is NOT AN, so how did she get the info? If you want to make a case for AA still being AN I'm sure there are other threads. I don't want to fight about it here again. Sorry, she wasn't AN.

ChatNoir

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Re: Since she wasn't Anastasia.....
« Reply #7 on: January 26, 2006, 02:04:34 PM »
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All I know is that they claimed she spoke Russian in her sleep. These were German ladies who may not have known Russian from some Polish or Kachubian (or whatever that dialect is) I know as an American I likely couldn't tell Russian from a Polish dialect as someone mumbled it in their sleep. It was documented years later that she didn't know English and French, Yussoupov said this in 1927. His wife was first cousins with Anastasia and he knew her.

I don't hardly think she played any tennis or piano in the asylum. If she painted or did embrodiery, that was very common for young girls in those days to learn, even in the US. That doesn't mean a thing.

This thread was on the already drawn conclusion that she is NOT AN, so how did she get the info? If you want to make a case for AA still being AN I'm sure there are other threads. I don't want to fight about it here again. Sorry, she wasn't AN.


It is very clear to me now that there is a LOT you do not know about this case. Therefore I will not argue with you until you can debate me on the specifics instead of making blanket statements.
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Offline Annie

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Re: Since she wasn't Anastasia.....
« Reply #8 on: January 26, 2006, 02:12:17 PM »
After reading up on it for 30 years, I know quite a bit. But honestly, now that we know for sure she wasn't Anastasia, none of the hearsay, guesses or gossip matter anymore. I don't want to waste any more time going round in circles, I want to move on and find out how she pulled off her false claim and who helped her. This is the mystery now, not her identity.

Offline Georgiy

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Re: Since she wasn't Anastasia.....
« Reply #9 on: January 26, 2006, 02:17:53 PM »
Annie - your dead horse just kills me!
Really, I doubt the real Anastasia would talk about the Kaiser as if she personally knew him. The last time they met was briefly when she was a little girl. After that of course with the war, he was hardly the most popular person amongst those at the Russian Court.

Offline Rachael89

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Re: Since she wasn't Anastasia.....
« Reply #10 on: January 26, 2006, 02:18:55 PM »
Annie, but surely if Felix asked her questions in all those languages and she answered that means that she must of understood the question's being asked (if she answered or do you mean she just spoke in German saying she didn't understand?), and seriously from my own experience, it is often harder to understand a language being spoken by someone who knows it fluently as opposed to speaking it yourself.

That then means that AA understood the 4 languages Felix spoke to her in  ??? ...

Rachael
It's not fair!

Offline Annie

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Re: Since she wasn't Anastasia.....
« Reply #11 on: January 26, 2006, 02:27:38 PM »
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Annie, but surely if Felix asked her questions in all those languages and she answered that means that she must of understood the question's being asked (if she answered or do you mean she just spoke in German saying she didn't understand?), and seriously from my own experience, it is often harder to understand a language being spoken by someone who knows it fluently as opposed to speaking it yourself.

That then means that AA understood the 4 languages Felix spoke to her in  ??? ...

Rachael


The questions were different. She ignored the questions in English, Russian and French and kept her back turned to him. She only answered the one in German. Why would a Russian person not speak Russian to another Russian person? Why would she only use the language AN used least of the four she knew? Easy, it wasn't really AN.

Later, as Eddie pointed out, she claimed Felix tried to kill her! She claimed he chased her around ranting "I killed Rasputin and I'll kill you too!" There is no evidence of a struggle or her ever asking for help. It's all phoney.

While Felix denounced her and joined the court case against her, there are rumors that later in life when he was very old he offered to switch sides for a cut of the money if she should win. He and his family denied this.

Offline Annie

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Re: Since she wasn't Anastasia.....
« Reply #12 on: January 26, 2006, 02:31:00 PM »
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Annie - your dead horse just kills me!


:D
I was hoping he'd do some good around here, I tried!

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Really, I doubt the real Anastasia would talk about the Kaiser as if she personally knew him. The last time they met was briefly when she was a little girl. After that of course with the war, he was hardly the most popular person amongst those at the Russian Court.


True, and their diaries and writings show that all the girls disliked him as a person and dreaded his visits. There is one quote I read once where they were bemoaning his upcoming visit, and wondering how they could avoid him.  

If she acted like she knew him personally, it was likely all a part of her act she was beginning to put on as she began her charade.

ChatNoir

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Re: Since she wasn't Anastasia.....
« Reply #13 on: January 26, 2006, 02:43:27 PM »
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If she acted like she knew him personally, it was likely all a part of her act she was beginning to put on as she began her charade.


That may all be true, but if this was all a charade, why would she not admit to anyone who she "was"? Why was she always hiding behing pseudonyms? Why did she fear the newspapers? Look at the "real" false Anastasia, Eugenia Smith. As far as I know, she did nothing to hide her light under a bushel.  And why not, she had nothing to fear, being the impostor that she was. Anastasia lived in constant fear of being deported back to Russia and shot.
Curious and curiouser.
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Chat Noir

Offline Annie

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Re: Since she wasn't Anastasia.....
« Reply #14 on: January 26, 2006, 02:57:22 PM »
Quote

That may all be true, but if this was all a charade, why would she not admit to anyone who she "was"?


She didn't want to admit she was faking.

There may have been times when she was tired of the charade and wanted her privacy too.

Quote
Why was she always hiding behing pseudonyms? Why did she fear the newspapers? Look at the "real" false Anastasia, Eugenia Smith. As far as I know, she did nothing to hide her light under a bushel.  And why not, she had nothing to fear, being the impostor that she was. Anastasia lived in constant fear of being deported back to Russia and shot.
Curious and curiouser.
Kind regards
Chat Noir


I think her real 'fear' was being found out and exposed.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Annie »