Author Topic: Did any of the Romanovs survive?  (Read 126277 times)

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detective

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Did any of the Romanovs survive?
« on: January 24, 2004, 05:18:04 AM »
There is a lot of mystery involved around this.  Many movies and books have been written on surviving Romanovs mostly on Anastasia.  Did she survive? Was Anna Anderson really Anastasia.  I mean The DNA report could have been manipulated.  

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Re: Did any of the Romanovs survive?
« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2004, 09:53:14 AM »
I moved this question to its own board because it tends to generate a lot of discussion.

There are 2 basic schools of thought. The one held in academic and scientific circles and by most who study the subject is that no one survived, based on the overwhelming preponderance of evidence of the murders.  We have eyewitness testimony that everyone was killed.  Subsequent investigations concluded the same.  The sheer logic of the situation is clear that even "if" anyone survived the initial shootings, beatings and stabbings, they would have soon died from lack of proper medical care, exposure, and lack of facilities to care for them...Notwithstanding there is the virtual impossibility at the time of hiding an Imperial Grand Duchess needing medical care, food and shelter, for any length of time without discovery.

We know for certain that Tsarevitch Alexei was one of the missing bodies.  Given his hemophilia, everyone concedes that he could not have survived long.  A fall at Bieloviezhe and later events at Spala nearly killed him...What would bullets and beatings and stabbings do? Besides there is the fact that as heir to the throne, the Bolsheviks would have certainly made quite certain he was dead.  There is also an historical account and testimony from a man who saw Alexei's body and described it in great detail.

The other thought says that since 2 bodies are missing the book cannot be "closed" on the possibility of survival.  They tend to rely on complicated conspiracy theories and fantasy stretches of reality for support, but find the "possibility" just too compelling to let it go.

We have talked to Dr. Terry Melton who performed some of the original mtDNA analysis comparing Anna Anderson's DNA with the DNA from Alexandra's direct family line and are convinced beyond doubt that her work was accurate, reliable and conclusive that Anna Anderson was in no way related to Empress Alexandra Feodrovna.

The Russian forensic scientists who have examined the remains are themselves clearly convinced that they have the remains of Anastasia and the missing body is in fact Marie Nicholaievna.

There are those, who will probably reply here, with their own preferred version of history.

Offline Topanga

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Re: Did any of the Romanovs survive?
« Reply #2 on: January 24, 2004, 10:24:38 PM »
I dont believe any of them survived. I enjoy reading authors theories about how they could have remained alive, but I just dont think it would have been possible. The other bodies are out there, somewhere, possibly discarded after bring burned, or maybe even before that, but I definetely believe all of them were killed. Some authors theories about Alexei surviving make me laugh because its so unrealistic. Even forgetting how sick the boy was and what the beating and bullets would have done to his body, I dont think he would have survived long on his own without his family. He was so sheltered and protected by his overbearing mother that he would have died just from not being able to take care of himself. Anyhoo, thats just my opinion though! :)

Offline Alice

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Re: Did any of the Romanovs survive?
« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2004, 05:07:14 AM »
"There is also an historical account and testimony from a man who saw Alexei's body and described it in great detail. "

Not trying to be gruesome or anything (although it's hard not to be when discussing murder), but is this account anywhere on the internet? If not, is it possible to post it?

Offline Robert_Hall

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Re: Did any of the Romanovs survive?
« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2004, 12:12:19 AM »
One might read THE FATE OF THE ROMANOVS by Greg King & Penny Wilson. The descriptions of the executions [murders] and disposal of the bodies are rather gruesome, but the eyewitness accounts are in there, [pgs 303-305,  etc].
I realize this book has it's detractors, however the research is extremely well done. If some dispute their sources, I suggest they try it,
{the research, not the murders !]
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Offline BobAtchison

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Re: Did any of the Romanovs survive?
« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2004, 12:35:40 PM »
There is a great deal of archival material in Yekaterinburg and the Urals that hasn't been translated into English - more accounts of people who were witnesses to the murder and the disposal of the bodies.  Don't forget that all the old Bolsheviks who participated were bragging about what they had done throughout their lives publically, on Soviet radio and in print.  It was a hideous badge of honor for them.

Offline anna

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Re: Did any of the Romanovs survive?
« Reply #6 on: February 04, 2004, 02:45:20 PM »
I once read in some article, that they took a picture of the bodies, right after the murder. Is that so?
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Offline Sushismom

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Re: Did any of the Romanovs survive?
« Reply #7 on: February 04, 2004, 05:27:13 PM »
I'm a fan of that particular book by King. One of the things I particularly enjoy about his books is the fact that he doesn't always take another author's word at face value - he does his own research. It's my belief that his books are more likely to be closer to the truth than others.

Offline BobAtchison

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Re: Did any of the Romanovs survive?
« Reply #8 on: February 04, 2004, 08:22:16 PM »
Anna, the story of the 'photograph' is another one of Radzinsky's tales that he made up to sell his book.  There is no evidence for pictures being taken.

In my opinion the best books on the end of the Romanovs are Massie's "The Romanovs, The Final Chapter" and Mark Steinberg's "The End of the Romanovs" - you can fully trust these (although all authors make mistakes).

There are also two books from Yekaterinburg in the 1990's that contain loads of original sources.  Unfortunately, the only one of these in English is out of print and impossible to get.  I was lucky to get one when it came out - it was expensive - I am glad I got it.


Offline Monarch

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Re: Did any of the Romanovs survive?
« Reply #9 on: February 04, 2004, 09:28:54 PM »
There is a great deal of archival material in Yekaterinburg and the Urals that hasn't been translated into English - more accounts of people who were witnesses to the murder and the disposal of the bodies.

This is what I would love to read about.  Just the local information.  Nothing to do with politics, just what they saw. Will it ever be translated Bob?  Have you read any of the accounts?? So interesting.

Offline BobAtchison

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Re: Did any of the Romanovs survive?
« Reply #10 on: February 05, 2004, 10:46:26 PM »
I wish I had an inexpensive Russian translator and permission from the publisher to put one of the books online - it's amazing.

Offline Alice

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Re: Did any of the Romanovs survive?
« Reply #11 on: February 06, 2004, 05:52:21 AM »
Can you paraphrase any juicy titbits for us?  :o

::: Wishes she knew Russian ::::

Offline Monarch

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Re: Did any of the Romanovs survive?
« Reply #12 on: February 06, 2004, 06:02:05 PM »
Oh now there is an idea. Anyway of getting the publishers' permission?  I love reading the stories online.  This website is just what I was looking for. So many different aspects to savor when you have a subject such as this. Bravo in advance for any niffties you could divulge?!  ;) ;D

Galina Alexander

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Re: Did any of the Romanovs survive?
« Reply #13 on: February 09, 2004, 10:43:32 AM »
Bob, can I ask what you personally think of Radzinsky's books? You sounded a bit negative about him. Thanks. Galina

Offline BobAtchison

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Re: Did any of the Romanovs survive?
« Reply #14 on: February 09, 2004, 03:35:08 PM »
I am grateful that he wrote his books and made this material available to millions of people.

I met Radzinsky in San Francisco when his first book came out.  he gave a lecture at a bookstore there and signed books afterwards.  During his leacture he went on and on about the 'mystery' of Aleksey and Anastasia's survival and why people should buy his book for more.

I asked him about the photo errors in it and he had nothing to say - he just shrugged his shoulders.  I then asked him if he really believed that Aleksey and Anastasia survived and se said I should buy his book to find out the answer.  I told him I had bought three copies all ready and wanted to know if he really believed in the Siberian Aleksey and his 'children' - he again suggested I read his book.  I didn't know if it was because his english was poor or what, but I couldn't get him to answer directly.  So next I asked him how he could claim the possibility that there were photos taken of the murder as his book speculated.  He refused to talk to me any more after that.

I think he loaded the book up with lots of stuff he knew not to be true but he just put it in to sell books.  It seemed to me the book was as much about him as about the Romanovs.  Also, because of the picture caption errors I wondered how well researched his book really was.

My preference is to just read the original accounts without Radzinsky's flowery prose and speculations passed off as truth.  That's why I prefer other books over his on this subject.

Also, I have to say that I thought his support of the rumors that Alexandra and Anna Vyrubova had a lesbian affair in the Raputin book was ridiculous.  No one believes that today and I think he threw it in to sell books.  It made me cautious about his whole Rasputin book.  How do we know what's true and what's not?

Bob