Author Topic: Archduchess Sophie,mother of Franz Josef  (Read 50374 times)

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Offline Yseult

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Re: Archduchess Sophie,mother of Franz Josef
« Reply #15 on: February 08, 2007, 03:57:35 PM »
Anyone has a portrait of Franz Karl when he was a young husband?  ::)

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Re: Archduchess Sophie,mother of Franz Josef
« Reply #16 on: February 13, 2007, 06:05:44 AM »
I have just found this picture:


Franz Carl with his family



« Last Edit: March 09, 2011, 09:06:25 AM by Svetabel »

Offline Yseult

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Re: Archduchess Sophie,mother of Franz Josef
« Reply #17 on: February 13, 2007, 06:42:37 AM »
You´re very gentle, Rani! I like so much all the portraits of young Sophie. Almost all the people think about Sophie as the not fair mother in law of Sissi, so they never think Sophie was also a beautiful and energetic bavarian princess into the circle of the viennese court.
I wonder if anyone knows how deep were Sophie´s relationship with her parents and siblings. She was a daughter, a half-sister and a sister before and after her marriage with Franz Karl (by the way, he was not an ugly man, neither a patetic figure as poor Ferdinand...). Was Sophie fond of her father and mother? Was she close to her half-sisters and half-brothers? I wonder what she was thinking about her half-brother Ludwig I, and the other half-brother who married morganatically twice...

Offline MarieCharlotte

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Re: Archduchess Sophie,mother of Franz Josef
« Reply #18 on: February 15, 2007, 04:26:06 AM »
Sophie Friederike was very close to her parents and to her siblings. I have never had the impression that the children of Max I. made a real difference between siblings and half-siblings.

Sophie adored her mother Caroline. When she came to Vienna, she started to write very emotional letters to her beloved mother in which she informed Caroline about everything that happened at court and Vienna, but also about her own feelings, fears and opinions.These letters were much more initmate than Sophie's diaries she started to write after her mother's death in 1841.
Sophie was of course very close to her twin-sister Maria Anna, but she also wrote thousands of letters to her sisters. If you look at the sources in different books, you may find out that she wrote most of the letters to Auguste, Marie, Amalie and Ludovica. Maybe there hasn't been a historian yet who had a look at Queen Elise of Prussia's estate.
Sophie's relationship to her sister Charlotte - or Caroline Auguste - was a bit, let's say, tense. Charlotte was Empress of Austria which means she had the position Sophie had always longed for. After Emperor Franz I.'s death, Charlotte still lived with the imperial family and was quite popular with the Austrians and also at court. Sophie seemed to be a bit jelous and didn't want her (half-) sister to have such a strong position at court and even in family life. Charlotte realized that and retired. But this doesn't mean that they didn't get along well with each other. If you read the diary or the letters of young Franz Joseph you can see that he spent a lot of time with his "Großmama". Sometimes he even called her "Tante Großmama" (= aunt grandma).

When Ludwig I., who prefered his real siblings Auguste, Charlotte and Carl Theodor, had the well-known love affair to Lola Montez, Sophie was shocked and was also afraid that her brother would lose his throne (which later really happend).
Prince Carl was the favourite brother of almost every daughter of Max I. Especially Ludovica loved him a lot. Carl once said that there is a difference between his private and his public life. In his opinion it was nobody's business to know with whom he was in love. So Carl's morganatic marriages weren't that important. Sophie often met him at Tegernsee when she had already been married.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2007, 04:29:16 AM by MarieCharlotte »
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Offline Yseult

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Re: Archduchess Sophie,mother of Franz Josef
« Reply #19 on: February 15, 2007, 05:46:28 AM »
I don´t remember where, but I believe it was in "Reluctant Empress" by Hammann, I have read that Sophie suffered a lot when she was a young and charming princess and she knew she was to marry Franz Karl. Her old nanny was so worried, cause Sophie was in deep sorrow and crying all the nights. So, the old nanny, who really loved tenderly the princess, tried to find support for the young Sophie speaking with queen Karoline. But Karoline said nothing but "What do you want?The entire issue was a choice made by the Congress of Vienna!" (I´m not quoting exactly, but working from memory...).

When Sophie realized there was not a way out from the engagedment with Franz Karl, the poor little thing was strong enough to say: "I´m determined to be happy...and I will be".

This purely emotional reaction from Sophie always shocked me. She grew up knowing well her duty as a princess. And Franz Karl was not a ugly man; he had a simple mind and he had not character, but he was a gentle prince. Above all, he was the son of an emperor and also a pressumptive heir of his elder brother, the epilectic and mental retarded Ferdinand. I can understand Ludovica suffered a lot because she was in love with prince Miguel of Portugal and she was forced into a marriage with a cousin, Max, who frankly told her he has in love with a common woman and he was to marry her following the orders of his father, Duke Pius. But Sophie was not in love with anyone...

Offline MarieCharlotte

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Re: Archduchess Sophie,mother of Franz Josef
« Reply #20 on: February 15, 2007, 06:31:33 AM »
I can understand Ludovica suffered a lot because she was in love with prince Miguel of Portugal and she was forced into a marriage with a cousin, Max, who frankly told her he has in love with a common woman and he was to marry her following the orders of his father, Duke Pius. But Sophie was not in love with anyone...

King Max and Duke Wilhelm, Maximilian's grandfather, decided that Max and Ludovica had to marry. Pius didn't care much about his son and, above all, he didn't have to decide anything concerning his son Max who was educated in Munich where the king, who was his godfather, looked after him.
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Offline Yseult

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Re: Archduchess Sophie,mother of Franz Josef
« Reply #21 on: February 15, 2007, 06:48:19 AM »
Thanks, Marie! I was working from memory, as I said, and memory is so frail (add to this that I have not the impressive knowledge about the Wittelsbach that you have ;) ).

But, thinking on this, I can understand Ludovica´s pain, but it´s quite strange to me the emotial reaction of Sophie against her engagedment to Franz Karl.

Offline ilyala

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Re: Archduchess Sophie,mother of Franz Josef
« Reply #22 on: February 16, 2007, 01:40:43 AM »
Thanks, Marie! I was working from memory, as I said, and memory is so frail (add to this that I have not the impressive knowledge about the Wittelsbach that you have ;) ).

But, thinking on this, I can understand Ludovica´s pain, but it´s quite strange to me the emotial reaction of Sophie against her engagedment to Franz Karl.

maybe it was the reaction of an intelligent woman knowing she was going to marry a 'simple' man, someone who would never understand her. maybe inside she dreamt she'd meet her prince someday and she knew franz karl wasn't it.

i for one would cry to be forced into a marriage i don't want. no matter how gentle the man is, if i don't love him it's torture.
'loving might be a mistake, but it's worth making'
ilya


Offline MarieCharlotte

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Re: Archduchess Sophie,mother of Franz Josef
« Reply #23 on: February 16, 2007, 02:44:31 AM »
At the Bavarian court, the young princesses weren't allowed to read books containing love stories. In King Max I.'s opinion his daughters would start dreaming about a perfect man and a great love while reading this. But as they would have to take the husband they were given by their father, they shouldn't have any illusions about love.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2007, 02:46:08 AM by MarieCharlotte »
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Offline Yseult

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Re: Archduchess Sophie,mother of Franz Josef
« Reply #24 on: February 16, 2007, 02:50:33 AM »
At the Bavarian court, the young princesses weren't allowed to read books containing love stories. In King Max I.'s opinion his daughters would start dreaming about a perfect man and a great love while reading this. But as they would have to take the husband they were given by their father, they shouldn't have any illusions about love.

But...the young ones didn´t need  these books to know well that some princesses really had found love stories ;) I imagine that Sophie knew about the romantic relationship between her older sister the duchess of Leuchtenberg and Eugene, for example...

Offline MarieCharlotte

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Re: Archduchess Sophie,mother of Franz Josef
« Reply #25 on: February 16, 2007, 02:55:27 AM »
But...the young ones didn´t need  these books to know well that some princesses really had found love stories ;) I imagine that Sophie knew about the romantic relationship between her older sister the duchess of Leuchtenberg and Eugene, for example...

Of course she knew about the harmonious relationship between Auguste and Eugène. But this marriage was nothing but Napoléon's wish. So it was just a happy coincidence that the couple came along so well with each other.
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Offline Mandie, the Gothic Empress

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Re: Archduchess Sophie,mother of Franz Josef
« Reply #26 on: February 18, 2007, 01:15:19 PM »
Sophie was indeed a beautiful young woman when she was a teenager.

I don't know much about her, i''ll get only Elisabeth (Sissi)'s point of view most of the time (I found Elisabeth to be a nasty lady!) and i don't think Sophie was nasty, possibly head-strong and trying to do the best for her son and family, but not snobby like Sissi. For like I said before that I don't know that much about Sophie. so i can't judge her.

Offline Veronika

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Re: Archduchess Sophie,mother of Franz Josef
« Reply #27 on: March 13, 2007, 04:03:34 AM »

Offline britt.25

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Re: Archduchess Sophie,mother of Franz Josef
« Reply #28 on: March 13, 2007, 05:33:46 AM »
Archduke Franz Karl as young man (he wasn´t bad looking, I think ;) but in the older years his face became a bit strange and longish...


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Offline ilyala

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Re: Archduchess Sophie,mother of Franz Josef
« Reply #29 on: March 13, 2007, 07:59:04 AM »
...he was probably a typical habsburg. they weren't very good looking
'loving might be a mistake, but it's worth making'
ilya