Author Topic: One thing I find odd  (Read 84499 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Ra-Ra-Rasputin

  • Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 814
  • Another Anastasia claimant; the ears match exactly
    • View Profile
One thing I find odd
« on: February 09, 2006, 10:16:03 AM »
Sorry if this has already been discussed, but this board is crazy with its 1 million posting threads and I can't be bothered to read through them all.


One thing that has always struck me as odd is that AA claimed she was AN before the bones were ever found.

COINCIDENTALLY, the bones of one of the grand duchesses and Alexei were missing, giving AA an even stronger claim to being AN before the DNA results came out and proved she wasn't.

Don't you think it's a bit weird that AA decided to pretend she was AN and then lo and behold AN's bones were missing from the grave? (Of course, that's if you believe they are AN's bones that are missing, which I do, and which I believe is the scientific consensus, but I may be wrong on that).  I always found that an odd coincidence. ?!?

But then, AA never mentioned Alexei surviving or escaping.  If the reason some people believe AA was AN is because of the missing bones, how do they explain the absence of Alexei? They can't BOTH have escaped without notice.  And if they DID, which would explain the absence of both sets of bones neatly, why didn't AA ever mention it?  She would surely have escaped with her brother. Obviously because it never happened, but you know...just being provocative. This board needs a new discussion.  ;)

Any thoughts on the matter??

Rachel
xx

'History teaches that history teaches us nothing' ~ Hegel

Offline Forum Admin

  • Administrator
  • Velikye Knyaz
  • *****
  • Posts: 4665
  • www.alexanderpalace.org
    • View Profile
    • Alexander Palace Time Machine
Re: One thing I find odd
« Reply #1 on: February 09, 2006, 10:22:59 AM »
Rachel
Please check the thread at the top of this section "Imperial Survivor Statistics" and you will see the following of just how MANY claimants there were:

This is according to the Russian language documentary "Poslye Rasstrela" ("After the Execution").

Total number of "Russian imperial children" claimants since 1918:

Olga:    28 claimants

Tatiana:  33 claimants

Maria:    53 claimants

Anastasia:   33 claimants

Alexei:     81 claimants

Total:  228 "imperial children" who survived the Ekaterinburg massacre...


SO, is ONE out of 228 really such an "amazing" coincidence? or really pretty reasonable odds that she just got to be the "lucky one"? I vote for the latter.

Offline Tsarina_Liz

  • Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 569
  • Existence is not a predicate.  - Kant
    • View Profile
Re: One thing I find odd
« Reply #2 on: February 09, 2006, 10:23:26 AM »
Quote
Sorry if this has already been discussed, but this board is crazy with its 1 million posting threads and I can't be bothered to read through them all.


One thing that has always struck me as odd is that AA claimed she was AN before the bones were ever found.

COINCIDENTALLY, the bones of one of the grand duchesses and Alexei were missing, giving AA an even stronger claim to being AN before the DNA results came out and proved she wasn't.

Don't you think it's a bit weird that AA decided to pretend she was AN and then lo and behold AN's bones were missing from the grave? (Of course, that's if you believe they are AN's bones that are missing, which I do, and which I believe is the scientific consensus, but I may be wrong on that).  I always found that an odd coincidence. ?!?

But then, AA never mentioned Alexei surviving or escaping.  If the reason some people believe AA was AN is because of the missing bones, how do they explain the absence of Alexei? They can't BOTH have escaped without notice.  And if they DID, which would explain the absence of both sets of bones neatly, why didn't AA ever mention it?  She would surely have escaped with her brother. Obviously because it never happened, but you know...just being provocative. This board needs a new discussion.  ;)

Any thoughts on the matter??

Rachel
xx



Frankly, I think it's just one big coincidence.  The way I've always imagined it is that when she was young she saw a picture of the IF in a magazine.  She would have known about the happenings in Russia.  When she needed a new identity, she wanted something glamorous so she chose the Grand Duchess she most looked like.  Obviously, thanks to that one visitor, it wasn't Tatiana - check that one off.  Too young and short to be Olga, check that one off.  Hmm.  Marie or Anastasia.  Decisions, decisions.  Not pretty enough or old enough to be Marie so Anastasia it is!

And, yes, I am serious.  This woman had an incredible thought process.    
Hindsight is 20/20.  When the myopic haze of of the present is lifted by the march of time we see it clearly as the past.  Sociology, psychology, anthropology.  They are all means of understanding that which came before.  History cannot stand alone.

Offline Ra-Ra-Rasputin

  • Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 814
  • Another Anastasia claimant; the ears match exactly
    • View Profile
Re: One thing I find odd
« Reply #3 on: February 09, 2006, 10:47:58 AM »
There were that many claimants??? How absurd!! Thanks for that, FA. :)

Even so, what I meant (which I didn't explicitly say, I now realise) is that AA was THE MOST publicised claimant.  It even went to court.  And then, what a coincidence, there are bones missing, and one of the missing is most likely to be AN.  That's why I find it so coincidental, the fact that AA was so publicised and then the missing bones seemed to verify her claim until the DNA proved otherwise.

It is weird, though, that people claimed they were survivors, and then there are actually bones missing.  It does make you think.  Could any of those 228 claimants REALLY have been one of the children? Until the bones are found, there can never be a conclusive answer, which is what is so fascinating.  What if one of those 228 really were one of the Imperial children? There could be descendants of Nicholas and Alexandra knocking about right now, and we wouldn't even know.  Fascinating stuff.

Rachel
xx
'History teaches that history teaches us nothing' ~ Hegel

Offline AGRBear

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 6611
  • The road to truth is the best one to travel.
    • View Profile
    • Romanov's  Russia
Re: One thing I find odd
« Reply #4 on: February 10, 2006, 11:41:35 AM »
There are many speculations as to why AA claimed to be GD Anastasia instead of Tatiana, Maria or Olga.   I think the best one is because most people wouldn't have reconized the grown up GD Anastasia as easily as the other sisters.

There were many rumors running around which  mentioned  GD Anastasia being a survivor.  Take a look at the thread about Perm which talks about the various testimonies by people who claimed they had seen Anastasia in and around Perm.

There is a thead about testimony about people who saw any member of the IF after the 16/17th of July.  That's another good one to read.

Although some people claim AA said she was first GD Tatiana,  it was not the case because according to books on this subject it was Clara Peuthert who had started this rumor.

Speaking of GD Tatiana,  there are web sites about why they think the missing person was she and not GD Anastasia.

The Russians claim it wasn't GD Anastasia but claim GD Marias  is the GD who is missing.   According to  FA's  score card  there were more Maria claimants than GD Anastasias.

AGRBear
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by AGRBear »
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

Offline Eddie_uk

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 2925
    • View Profile
Re: One thing I find odd
« Reply #5 on: February 10, 2006, 12:48:36 PM »
Quote
There are many speculations as to why AA claimed to be GD Anastasia instead of Tatiana, Maria or Olga.   I think the best one is because most people wouldn't have reconized the grown up GD Anastasia as easily as the other sisters.



Good point Bear!

Out of interest, how many people claimed to be Nicholas or Alexandra?  ;D
Grief is the price we pay for love.

FREE PALESTINE.

Offline XRogue

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 10
  • Aure Entuluva!
    • View Profile
    • Rohan
Re: One thing I find odd
« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2006, 12:58:53 PM »
There is a way to eliminate at least some of the other claimants, the same way AA was eliminated. DNA testing of those we can get a tissue sample of.

Of course, it's always possible one of the claimants (even more than one) could be telling the truth, and we would all like to believe that someone survived, no matter how unlikely it may have been. The murder of the IF was such a tragedy, and so unfair.
What you want is irrelevant. What you've chosen is at hand!

Offline Eddie_uk

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 2925
    • View Profile
Re: One thing I find odd
« Reply #7 on: February 10, 2006, 01:02:59 PM »
Well two maximum :)

I think if any of the IF had really survived they would have been able to easily prove themselves just by what they knew and surely would only have been to happy to be welcomed by Olga and Xenia etc
Grief is the price we pay for love.

FREE PALESTINE.

David_Pritchard

  • Guest
Re: One thing I find odd
« Reply #8 on: February 10, 2006, 01:26:38 PM »
This is not the type of discussion in which I normally participate but I have been curious about one aspect of the AA saga, how did Dmitiri Pavlovich react to her claim specifically? I have a vague memory that his grandson told me that he rejected the claim of AA. Surely GD Dmitri would have spent much time with the real GDss Anastasia in his youth.

David

Offline stepan

  • Boyar
  • **
  • Posts: 145
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
    • View Profile
Re: One thing I find odd
« Reply #9 on: February 10, 2006, 05:56:16 PM »
Dmitri Pavlovich never met Anna Anderson so we don´t know what his reaction would be. But he was one of the twelve Romanovs who signed the Copenhagen declaration in 1928 in which they rejected her claim. Those twelve were GD Olga and Xenia. Xenia´s husband GD Alexander,her six sons and daughter Irina and GD Dmitri Pavlovich and his sister GD Maria Pavlovna. Of those  people only GD Olga actually met AA.

Offline Annie

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 4757
    • View Profile
    • Anna Anderson Exposed!
Re: One thing I find odd
« Reply #10 on: February 14, 2006, 06:46:53 AM »
The fact that Dmitri wasn't asked to see her is much the same as Anna V. not being asked. He knew the family too well, having spent much time with them growing up, so her backers couldn't take a chance on him exposing her. This is yet another reason why I believe her backers knew exactly what was going on (her faking) or they'd have honestly sought out those closest to the family, like Dmitri and AV.


Offline Annie

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 4757
    • View Profile
    • Anna Anderson Exposed!
Re: One thing I find odd
« Reply #11 on: February 14, 2006, 06:48:20 AM »
Quote
Of those  people only GD Olga actually met AA.


But Felix Y., Irina's husband, did. He gave his report to the entire Sandro/Xenia clan, and it wasn't glowing. He denounced her as a 'frightful playactress' and 'wretched creature.' He had asked her questions in Russian, French, English and German, and she only responded in German.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Annie »

Offline Eddie_uk

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 2925
    • View Profile
Re: One thing I find odd
« Reply #12 on: February 14, 2006, 09:36:19 AM »
But don't forget Annie that Felix tried to kill AA! It was a close call but luckily  she managed to run away and hide!!! :P
Grief is the price we pay for love.

FREE PALESTINE.

Offline Annie

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 4757
    • View Profile
    • Anna Anderson Exposed!
Re: One thing I find odd
« Reply #13 on: February 14, 2006, 09:55:15 AM »
Quote
But don't forget Annie that Felix tried to kill AA! It was a close call but luckily  she managed to run away and hide!!! :P


Oh that's right  ::) He yelled "I killed Rasputin and I'll kill you too for what your mother did to my country" :o ::)

only nobody else in the hotel saw or heard a thing of this 'death threat', even though her story included running down the main stairs screaming :P

(I know you know this Eddie, just telling it for those who might have thought it's true!)  ;)

Offline lori_c

  • Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 687
    • View Profile
Re: One thing I find odd
« Reply #14 on: September 12, 2006, 04:07:57 PM »
I believe that given the timeframe of the burial of the IF and the fact that Yurovsky and his men had to rebury them one could argue that peasants within range of the Koptyaki Forest (unnoticed) could have known that 2 bodies were not buried with the common grave - NOT that I am inferring anybody survived. I don't want to go down that path for this post. 

However, I do think that gossip and spreading tales - true or exaggerated was a preponderance of the Russian Guard as well.  So this may have been how the rumor started that 2 survived.  Considering the 2 missing were Almost named correctly in Yurovsky's note (he said Demidova and Alexei), I am guessing it was someone that was there that day and helped rebury the bodies the second time and noticed not all were accounted for.  Then probably went on to discuss this horrible day with others which spread like wildfire.  This is probably why Yurovsky felt the need to account for two missing bodies.