Author Topic: One thing I find odd  (Read 84940 times)

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Offline AGRBear

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Re: One thing I find odd
« Reply #435 on: November 05, 2006, 09:16:52 PM »
I do not believe AA was GD Anastasia.
  
I do not believe Tammet was Alexei.

And, yes,  it appears most of us posting on this thread are repeating what has already been discussed on two other threads.

It appears that it is a fact tht no one has found Alexei's medical records which would present the diagnosis by the doctor/ doctors treating Alexei.

Just as it's a fact that  many blood disorders, which would have had the same symtoms as Alexei,  have been discovered since 1918,  and,  so,  I see no reason not to ask questions about Alexei's blood disorder.  In doing this does not mean anything other than making corrections if needed if there is proof  the doctors were in error.

It doesn't matter to me if Alexei had or did not have hemophilia.   I am just on a long journey looking for the truth and I don't care where it takes me,  I am just enjoying the journey.

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« Last Edit: November 05, 2006, 09:45:09 PM by AGRBear »
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Offline Louis_Charles

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Re: One thing I find odd
« Reply #436 on: November 05, 2006, 10:22:09 PM »
Good luck on your journey, Bear. The rest of us have reached home base and are waving you in.
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Offline AGRBear

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Re: One thing I find odd
« Reply #437 on: November 05, 2006, 10:45:56 PM »
Thanks  Louis_Charles (Simon).

As you know, I  often take these side roads that prove quite interesting.

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Offline Annie

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Re: One thing I find odd
« Reply #438 on: November 05, 2006, 11:05:35 PM »
Thanks  Louis_Charles (Simon).

As you know, I  often take these side roads that prove quite interesting.

AGRBear

I know what you mean by the roads. I often travel to the moutains, to an area I've been to many times in my life, but I find it very fun to take different roads through the area, and on the way home. I always discover something I never saw before, and it's fun. But it's not like pretending Harrisonburg doesn't exist, or that it might turn out to be Harrisburg, PA despite all the evidence to the contrary. Bear, your posts always sound pro claimant. If this is really not the case, you need to change your approach, and lay off the "File on the Tsar." Your quotes from it have got to be the most redundant and annoying posts here, right next to my personal stories and analogies ;)

Offline Belochka

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Re: One thing I find odd
« Reply #439 on: November 05, 2006, 11:08:32 PM »
JFK, AKA Mazukov, you know as well as I do that if ever there was a DNA test done on this Tannet fellow, and the results (strangely enough) showed him not to be Tsesarevich Alexei, then we'll have that whole 'conspiracy' switched intestines kind of thing we saw with Anna Anderson. Wasn't it Mulder on X Files who said "I want to believe..."

Except in this case it would be switched teeth ....  :D

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Offline grandduchessella

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Re: One thing I find odd
« Reply #440 on: November 05, 2006, 11:28:58 PM »
I can read the article, but what year was it? Nov. 9, -----?  If the NY Times knew it before WWI, why not the  Russian people?

It was 1912.

We had a lengthy discussion on a long-ago thread about this.  It is a virtual certainty that at least the elite classes in Russia as well as the international diplomatic corps knew of Alexei's illness.  This whole thing about no one's understanding why Alexandra was so dependent on Rasputin is just bunk.  Russia's elite knew why she turned to Rasputin.  Other than a few bored occultists among the aristocracy, they just thought she was deluded in doing so.

Now, back to the questions posed to Mr. Kendrick . . .

Tsarfan,
Can you or anyone else cite for me (with sources please) references to prolonged periods of bleeding? Are the examples where they say (for example) Alexei bled for xx hours or days?
I am aware of the pain and the swelling etc. But have yet found any entry in either Nicholas or Alex's diairies that discuss extended periods of bleeding, which may be an over sight on my part. If not, you think they would mention it.
Thank you,
Lexi

If you check out the 2 threads I mentioned (and provided the link for one) I think there are numerous references there but it's not my area to be absolutely certain. I mostly skimmed the threads.
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Offline Belochka

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Re: One thing I find odd
« Reply #441 on: November 05, 2006, 11:40:51 PM »

Haemophilia is a very specific type of blood disorder.  It is only one of as many as 150 known blood disorders that all have what is called a "haemorrhagic diathesis'.


There is something rather repugnant when a journalist attempts to involve themselves with medical issues and on so doing attempts to pull the wool over everyone's eyes. As a medical professional it is patently clear to me.

My co-author and I have challenged you directly in the media and we have proven beyond doubt, using carefully structured analysis how MISGUIDED and selective with your interpretations you are.

It is now time for me to move away from this tiresome game that you play.

Margarita
  :-X
« Last Edit: November 05, 2006, 11:45:30 PM by Belochka »


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Offline lexi4

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Re: One thing I find odd
« Reply #442 on: November 06, 2006, 06:11:20 AM »

Haemophilia is a very specific type of blood disorder.  It is only one of as many as 150 known blood disorders that all have what is called a "haemorrhagic diathesis'.


There is something rather repugnant when a journalist attempts to involve themselves with medical issues and on so doing attempts to pull the wool over everyone's eyes. As a medical professional it is patently clear to me.

My co-author and I have challenged you directly in the media and we have proven beyond doubt, using carefully structured analysis how MISGUIDED and selective with your interpretations you are.

It is now time for me to move away from this tiresome game that you play.

Margarita
  :-X

Just a quick question for you. Are you a hemotologist? I assume when you say medical professional you are some kind of doctor as you use this in a fashion that gives you credibility so I doubt that you are a technician or clerk. So what kind of medical professional are you?
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Offline lexi4

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Re: One thing I find odd
« Reply #443 on: November 06, 2006, 06:17:04 AM »
Chill Tsarfan. Of course I have heard of Spala and still found no reference to continual bleeding. This is not a challenge to anything, I am merely asking questions and trying to participate in a discussion. Geez.

Sorry if I over-reacted, Lexi4.  But since these references can be found as easily by you as by me with an internet search, I took the request for the number of hours that the bleeds lasted and the request for specific sources as a dodge.  Again, sorry if I misunderstood your intent.

The pain and swelling about which you said you already knew are the symptoms of internal bleeding.  External bleeding was largely manageable with hemophiliacs in that era.  It was the internal bleeds that were so threatening and so debilitating.

Much of Mr. Kendrick's theory that Alexei had an aplastic crisis at Spala instead of a hemophilia attack rests on the argument that there had been no injury immediately preceding the start of the bleed and that it spontaneously stopped several days later.

In fact, hemophilia has exactly those same symptoms.  Hemophilia is currently assigned three levels of severity.  Before modern treatment, spontaneous bleeds not caused by specific injury, especially in joints and the abdomen, were a very common occurrence with the most severe level and an occasional occurence at the middle level.  Likewise, assuming the victim didn't die in the meantime, there would be an eventual cessation of bleeding.  Hemophilia doesn't mean bleeding never stops.  It means it takes a prolonged period of time to stop.  Sometimes the pressure of the internal swelling itself staunches the bleeding.  In the meantime, joints and organs can suffer irreversible or fatal damage.

And, guess what?  The medical literature says that the most common age for spontaneous hemophilia bleeds is between the years of 5 and 15.  Wanna guess how old Alexei was when he had the attacks at Spala and at Tobolsk?

But again, no matter what the proper diagnosis, Alexei indisputably had life-threatening occurences of uncontrolled internal bleeding, with the two most serious attacks being at Spala in 1912 and Tobolsk in 1918.

So, back to the two questions to Mr. Kendrick . . .

Are you saying the tsesarevich Alexei did not have a disorder (regardless of its name) that caused uncontrolled bleeding for prolong periods?  And did or did not Heino Tammet have a disorder (regardless of its name) that had those symptoms?

Thank you Tsarfan. Yes, Alexei did have a life threatening disease and suffered greatly. I have read that many times. I did do  an internet search and didn't find anything specific or not as specific as what the FA posted anyway. I have been looking for references in diaries etc. My library probably isn't as extensive as some on this board, so when I have a question, I ask.
Lexi
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Offline Tsarfan

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Re: One thing I find odd
« Reply #444 on: November 06, 2006, 09:40:35 AM »
You should read this paper, Lexi:

http://www.geocities.com/mushkah/Hemophilia.html

It quotes some entries from Nicholas' diary referring to specific bleeding episodes, and it quotes from several memoires of Romanov family members and close court associates who specifically mention hemophilia as the diagnosis given by doctors.

It thoroughly debunks Mr. Kendrick's assertion that no contemporary ever used the term hemophilia to refer to Alexei's condition, as well as gives a detailed medical explanation of why Mr. Kendrick's pseudo-scientific theories are nothing more than an attempt to promote the absurd claims of a Canadian who happened to live in the vicinity of Mr. Kendrick's readers.

Think about it.  What is more likely?  That Alexei survived the massacre of his family and moved to British Columbia (from where, by the way, he never tried to contact his Aunt Olga, who was also living in Canada)?  Or that a newspaper reporter in Vancouver, trying to generate readership, would seize upon the claims of a local crackpot and try to turn them into a running storyline?

The first scenario would require several extraordinary occurences, almost to the point of being miracles.  The second scenario is something that happens anywhere there are papers to be sold.

So think about it.  What is more likely?

Offline J_Kendrick

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Re: One thing I find odd
« Reply #445 on: November 06, 2006, 12:19:00 PM »
You should read this paper, Lexi:

http://www.geocities.com/mushkah/Hemophilia.html

It quotes some entries from Nicholas' diary referring to specific bleeding episodes, and it quotes from several memoires of Romanov family members and close court associates who specifically mention hemophilia as the diagnosis given by doctors.

It thoroughly debunks Mr. Kendrick's assertion that no contemporary ever used the term hemophilia to refer to Alexei's condition, as well as gives a detailed medical explanation ...


Yeah, sure... A claimed explanation that somehow makes the serious mistake of inferring that a clotting factor deficiency and a platelet dysfunction are the same thing.. when, in fact, they are not.  If it's a platelet dysfunction... it's not haemophilia.

Apparently, the study of haematology must have little in common with the studies of endocrinology or library sciences...


« Last Edit: November 06, 2006, 12:24:23 PM by J_Kendrick »

Offline Tsarfan

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Re: One thing I find odd
« Reply #446 on: November 06, 2006, 12:32:48 PM »
So, Mr. Kendrick . . .

Thank you for acknowledging that one of the authors of the paper I mentioned is an endocrinologist.  Now what, exactly, are your medical credentials?

And, as for the her co-author being a library scientist . . . perhaps that is why she was able to find diary entries by Nicholas that you overlooked when you incorrectly reported the scope of those entries in your own article.

And please give us a list of medical professionals who have publicly accepted your interpretation of Alexei's condition or who have joined you in disputing that he had hemophilia.


Offline AGRBear

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Re: One thing I find odd
« Reply #447 on: November 06, 2006, 01:37:06 PM »
Thanks  Louis_Charles (Simon).

As you know, I  often take these side roads that prove quite interesting.

AGRBear

I know what you mean by the roads. I often travel to the moutains, to an area I've been to many times in my life, but I find it very fun to take different roads through the area, and on the way home. I always discover something I never saw before, and it's fun. But it's not like pretending Harrisonburg doesn't exist, or that it might turn out to be Harrisburg, PA despite all the evidence to the contrary. Bear, your posts always sound pro claimant. If this is really not the case, you need to change your approach, and lay off the "File on the Tsar." Your quotes from it have got to be the most redundant and annoying posts here, right next to my personal stories and analogies ;)

After years of  posting,  all the old timers  know very well that I am merely asking for facts and do NOT like half truths, therefore,  those who continue to post half truths about anything [pro-claimant or  non-believers]  will be once again subjected to my demands of facts attached to  sources so the facts can be viewed by all.  And, as always,  I do tend to annoy posters who prefer to be allowed to continue without being subjected to corrections of the known facts.

So, Annie, which fact that I've mention annoys you today?  ;)

AGRBear
« Last Edit: November 06, 2006, 01:51:14 PM by AGRBear »
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

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Offline LisaDavidson

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Re: One thing I find odd
« Reply #448 on: November 06, 2006, 02:26:17 PM »
Final warning - this thread is on it's way to being locked. For the rules of engagement, please refer to my prior posting in which I request that civility reign here. I see today's the day for pot shots. Naughty, naughty, posters! I have removed

I suggest that someone start a new thread on our survivors forum because this one is going historical very soon, unless of course, civility breaks out here.

Offline Annie

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Re: One thing I find odd
« Reply #449 on: November 06, 2006, 05:26:52 PM »


After years of  posting,  all the old timers  know very well that I am merely asking for facts and do NOT like half truths, therefore,  those who continue to post half truths about anything [pro-claimant or  non-believers]  will be once again subjected to my demands of facts attached to  sources so the facts can be viewed by all.  And, as always,  I do tend to annoy posters who prefer to be allowed to continue without being subjected to corrections of the known facts.

So, Annie, which fact that I've mention annoys you today?  ;)

AGRBear

Did you mean mention "File on the Tsar?" I didn't see it in this post, but if you consider that 'known facts' I'm afraid your backroads joruney has taken you too far from the road to truth :-\

What was deleted? Anything I did? Guess I missed it.