Author Topic: Duchesse de Polignac  (Read 63185 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline polignac

  • Boyar
  • **
  • Posts: 146
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
    • View Profile

Offline coquelicot

  • Graf
  • ***
  • Posts: 269
    • View Profile
Re: Duchesse de Polignac
« Reply #31 on: February 21, 2006, 04:33:18 AM »
Thanks, dear Polignac ! Interesting, indeed... the man seemed to have attractions for his cousins !  ;D

It's the biggest text I have ever read about Vaudreuil. I guess it's even worst than in Madame de Polignac's case : we have almost nothing...

In Marie-Antoinette's biographies, there're always several lines about him, never positive. He is depicted Madame de Polignac's bad genius, sometimes sharp and bad to her, and even insolent towards the queen.

Now... how far is this awful reputation true ? Some people wrote that, being very exclusive in her friendships, Marie-Antoinette was jealous of Vaudreuil being so close to Gabrielle... Well, they however played Beaumarchais together. And, some say his journey to England, with Gabrielle, was for negociating with Lamotte in the name of the queen.

What to think ? The Polignacs and Vaudreuil have been so hated it is really difficult to come to a conclusion...
Anyhow, my supreme reference being Marie-Antoinette, I'd say that I found many sweet words in her letter to Gabrielle. The queen kisses all Gabrielle's children, she sends her regards to her husband... not mentioning Vaudreuil. That could mean something...
qu'ils sachent du moins, que jusqu'à mon dernier moment j'ai pensé à eux.

Offline polignac

  • Boyar
  • **
  • Posts: 146
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
    • View Profile
Re: Duchesse de Polignac
« Reply #32 on: February 21, 2006, 06:20:45 AM »
i know that after the revolution, the kings, aristocracy and the church were very wronged...the people invented maney things about them.
never less, i think that Vaudreuil was only taking advantage about his relation with Yolande Polignac..in wikipedia, it's said that «It was generally believed at Versailles that Yolande's second child was actually fathered by her lover, the Comte de Vaudreuil.»...i would like if it could be true..

«When Calonne fell from grace, Vaudreuil's credit dried up. The Queen turned resolutely against him. On the brink of financial ruin, he was obliged to sell off his collections. », and «The queen disliked him (Turgot) for opposing the grant of favours to her proteges, and he had offended Mme. de Polignac in a similar manner.» and «He (Charles, comte d'Artois in exile) took the disastrous decision of appointing Calonne to his council, which outraged Marie Antoinette, who had never liked him. This was an end to Charles and Marie-Antoinette's deep friendship, and Charles was left wracked with guilt after her execution in 1793.»
so, Vaudreuil was a friend of Calonne and Turgot?..It is said that Calonne was disliked by the Queen..Turgot was also..It's possible that Vaudreuil fell in disfavour because his relations with "the enemies of the Queen"...Calonne was exiled, but, when the revolution began, he alisted himself in the prince of Conti army....At the end, Calonne was a a loyal royalist, only wanting the best of France...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by polignac »

Offline polignac

  • Boyar
  • **
  • Posts: 146
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
    • View Profile
Re: Duchesse de Polignac
« Reply #33 on: February 21, 2006, 06:41:14 AM »
however, i consider the comte de Vaudreuil (or vicomte, as i already saw?), an opportunist..he came from a noble family, but not from the aristocracy like the Conti's, the Condé's, the Orléans and the Rohan..We wasn't very powerfull..so, he came closer to one of most influential friends of the Queen, and he was made an important and much more richer person..in the french wikipedia it is said: «Vaudreuil reçoit 30 000 livres de rente annuelle», in english, i think (yes, because my french is awfull) it is saying that Vaudreuil recieved 30 000 livres of annual income..i don't have an idea about what is this some, but i've read somewhere that 100 livres corresponded to $700..but i think that it's not true...i even don't remember where ive read that.. ???

Offline coquelicot

  • Graf
  • ***
  • Posts: 269
    • View Profile
Re: Duchesse de Polignac
« Reply #34 on: February 21, 2006, 07:25:07 AM »
I don't think I can help you, Polignac... I have low interest in politics and in figures ! That's why I'm so happy with this european euro... it's easier when you travel !

Back to Vaudreuil, I think he was Gabrielle's friend or even lover before she became queen's favorite. Wasn't he ? Furthermore, he didn't need her help that much, being himsel very close to Count of Artois. There were so many jealous people in this court that it is difficult to find the truth.

Vaudreuil may father Gabrielle's last child. It's not impossible... But that may be gossips, too... Every child the queen had was supposed to have a different father, after all ! Except for the king, of course... because he was impotent ! People even wondered, when Madame de Polignac was pregnant, who's child this was, since Monsieur de Polignac was absent... Vaudreuil's ? Or Marie-Antoinette's ?

In such a witty golden cage, every stupidity was told and written !
qu'ils sachent du moins, que jusqu'à mon dernier moment j'ai pensé à eux.

Offline polignac

  • Boyar
  • **
  • Posts: 146
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
    • View Profile
Re: Duchesse de Polignac
« Reply #35 on: February 21, 2006, 03:25:15 PM »
ahahhahahahahaha...people thought that Yolande's sun was from the Queen.. :-X :-X

do you know the year that Yolande passed to Countess to Duchesse?

Offline polignac

  • Boyar
  • **
  • Posts: 146
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
    • View Profile
Re: Duchesse de Polignac
« Reply #36 on: February 21, 2006, 03:31:09 PM »
Yolande relation with the King was also good....asking if you think that Louis XVI was the father of Yolande sun is a very rumote chance isn't?... :P

Offline coquelicot

  • Graf
  • ***
  • Posts: 269
    • View Profile
Re: Duchesse de Polignac
« Reply #37 on: February 21, 2006, 03:45:28 PM »
I don't remember when she became duchess. It was first step. After, she was made governess. Duchess ? Round 1781/82, maybe ? It's in Lever's fictitious diary of Marie-Antoinette, but I don't have it right now, sorry...

Yes, the king liked Madame de Polignac very much. He was happy his wife has such a friend for quiet Gabrielle was always able to calm nervous Antoinette down. She had children, too, so, these two mothers could share the joy of raising their kids together. During revolution, he wrote nice letters to duchess de Polignac, he clearly relied on her and told her his worries and regrets.

I've read somewhere, too, that Gabrielle de Polignac could be the only woman, except for hers !, Louis XVI could be attracted to. I don't know if it true. She was considered a beauty at the court. Anyhow, I really don't think the king fathered her last son ! Actually, he had low interest in sex...
qu'ils sachent du moins, que jusqu'à mon dernier moment j'ai pensé à eux.

Offline polignac

  • Boyar
  • **
  • Posts: 146
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
    • View Profile
Re: Duchesse de Polignac
« Reply #38 on: February 21, 2006, 04:26:45 PM »
but it would be interesting if Louis and Yolande had an affair...but in my opinion, it's very rumoute..i don't believe that they had an affair..

Offline polignac

  • Boyar
  • **
  • Posts: 146
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
    • View Profile
Re: Duchesse de Polignac
« Reply #39 on: February 21, 2006, 05:13:31 PM »
http://altreligion.about.com/library/glossary/texts/bl_gtstgermain.htm    at the "middle-end", it speaks about Yolande...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by polignac »

Offline polignac

  • Boyar
  • **
  • Posts: 146
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
    • View Profile
Re: Duchesse de Polignac
« Reply #40 on: February 21, 2006, 05:15:12 PM »
Yolande married in 1767 Comte Jules de Polignac who was created Duc de Polognac in 1780. (http://worldroots.com/brigitte/royal/arti-p.htm)[/quote]
coquelicot, you was almost certain about the date..only one year...

Offline coquelicot

  • Graf
  • ***
  • Posts: 269
    • View Profile
Re: Duchesse de Polignac
« Reply #41 on: February 22, 2006, 03:24:14 AM »
I would be a poor historian, dear Polignac... I focuse on people and stories, and I forget about dates and figures ! ::)

I've read so many things about this Count Saint-Germain, about Cagliostro and Mesmer, too. It seems such "magicians" were a rage at this time. Madame de Lamballe was a freemason (a very important grande maîtresse), she was cured by magnetisor Mesmer for her fragile nerves. Some people said Marie-Antoinette once attended a session, disguised, and even a masonic sitting !



Princess de Lamballe



again

I also read the queen had an interest in cards and tarots and predictions. What about Madame de Polignac ? I don't know... but it sounds esoterics was a fashion !

Let's drop Gabrielle having an affair with Louis XVI ! All I see about him being close to her is that he got along very well with his wife's friends. He liked and appreciated Fersen very much, too. So, Antoinette's friends were Louis' too !
qu'ils sachent du moins, que jusqu'à mon dernier moment j'ai pensé à eux.

Offline polignac

  • Boyar
  • **
  • Posts: 146
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
    • View Profile
Re: Duchesse de Polignac
« Reply #42 on: February 22, 2006, 01:20:55 PM »
«Louis XVI, who was grateful for her calming influence on his wife. » «Yolande Polignac was a conservative aristocrat from the South of France»..so, i think that she isn't a freemanson..
even so, i don't know if it's true that she was so anti-liberal and ultra-conservative...the people exaggerates to get worse her image...she wasn't very religious.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0312337086/sr=8-2/qid=1140635858/ref=pd_bbs_2/002-0945578-8464851?%5Fencoding=UTF8

that book speaks a little about Yolande

Offline polignac

  • Boyar
  • **
  • Posts: 146
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
    • View Profile
Re: Duchesse de Polignac
« Reply #43 on: February 22, 2006, 05:13:45 PM »
but are any proofs that Yolande was conected with the freemansons?
...
Gosh i didn't know!..The first son of Yolande, Aglae, married when she was only 13 years old!!!  :o :o :o

Offline coquelicot

  • Graf
  • ***
  • Posts: 269
    • View Profile
Re: Duchesse de Polignac
« Reply #44 on: February 23, 2006, 03:26:41 AM »
Waow, Polignac ! So much information !
We have a discussion on this board about freemasonry, yet. Obviously, Gabrielle wasn't in, being too conservative.
Marie-Antoinette's other friend, Louise de Lamballe, was "grande maîtresse", being close to Philippe d'Orléans.

Now, you are asking the good question : was Gabrielle so conservative ? She and other Polignacs appreciated Calonne (another handsome guy :).



It seems Calonne had very reformative views in politics. And he was the Polignacs' champion... So what ?  :-/

It's true Aglaé had her first child so young ! But remember Antoinette was supposed to, being married 14 ! Fortunately, Louis was to gentle to rape her ! I really like Louis... nice guy !  ;)
qu'ils sachent du moins, que jusqu'à mon dernier moment j'ai pensé à eux.