Boleyn or Bullen?

OK a bit like Smith or Smythe (apologies to all the Smith/Smythes out there)

OK a bit like Smith or Smythe (apologies to all the Smith/Smythes out there)

Yes, but the Smith/Smythe thing is 18th or 19th century, when people called Smith adopted (or retained) an antique spelling to differentiate themselves from all the other Smiths. It also made it look as if it was an "old family". In the 16th century the name was most often written Smythe and pronounced "Smith".

I'm not convinced (yet!) that "Boleyn" sounded less common or more foreign than "Bullen".  Anne didn't have to "keep up appearances", like Hyacinth Bucket ("Bouquet") - Anne's family connections were very good. Her mother was the daughter of the Duke of Norfolk and her father's mother was the daughter of the Earl of Ormonde. Although they weren't a very old family they had definitely got past the stage of being parvenus.

The family of the Earl of Ormonde incidentally has been called "Butler" since the middle ages, and they seem to be quite happy with that!

So, I still think Bullen and Boleyn are just alternative spellings.

So maybe its not the spelling so much as the pronunciation. The people who shouted rude epithets in the street probably couldn't spell, so maybe Bullen was made to sound more "down market "than Boleyn.
But yes it could be alternative spellings, look at how some of the Queens signed themselves... "Anne the Queen" or "Jane the Quene"

Yes indeed - like Elizabeth Woodville/Wydville/Wydeville and 'Elyzabeth' or 'Elizabeth', 'Mary' or 'Marye'.

So maybe its not the spelling so much as the pronunciation. The people who shouted rude epithets in the street probably couldn't spell, so maybe Bullen was made to sound more "down market "than Boleyn.

They could just shout "wanton hussey!", it would be much easier!

 

Yes, but the Smith/Smythe thing is 18th or 19th century, when people called Smith adopted (or retained) an antique spelling to differentiate themselves from all the other Smiths. It also made it look as if it was an "old family". In the 16th century the name was most often written Smythe and pronounced "Smith".

I'm not convinced (yet!) that "Boleyn" sounded less common or more foreign than "Bullen".  Anne didn't have to "keep up appearances", like Hyacinth Bucket ("Bouquet") - Anne's family connections were very good. Her mother was the daughter of the Duke of Norfolk and her father's mother was the daughter of the Earl of Ormonde. Although they weren't a very old family they had definitely got past the stage of being parvenus.

The family of the Earl of Ormonde incidentally has been called "Butler" since the middle ages, and they seem to be quite happy with that!

So, I still think Bullen and Boleyn are just alternative spellings.

I actually think that Anne would have been in quite a similiar position to the Bucket woman!  Her background was less than lustrous with only a tenuous attachment to royal blood and with plenty of controversy/rumor.  She was unpopular with the people and was desperate to legitimize herself.  

I actually think that Anne would have been in quite a similiar position to the Bucket woman!  Her background was less than lustrous with only a tenuous attachment to royal blood and with plenty of controversy/rumor.  She was unpopular with the people and was desperate to legitimize herself.  

Anne was also famous for her candlelit suppers!

 

Anne was also famous for her candlelit suppers!

Ha!  Makes me wonder how henpecked poor Henry was.

They could just shout "wanton hussey!", it would be much easier!

I think her detractors actually called her "the goggle-eyed whore"  If I remember correctly!

Yes, Bullen sounded more coarse in pronunciation, so it could well have been used by people seeking to discredit her. Although there were some other names, as has been pointed out. Spelling back then frequently changed, and most people on the street where either illiterate, or had a very basic knowledge of spelling,etc. And so it was more based on this name sounding more coarse in prononciation as an insult, rather than spelling. Both ways were no doubt used in spelling, and everyday language, but Boleyn was no doubt more elegant, and rightly so.

Yes, Bullen sounded more coarse in pronunciation, so it could well have been used by people seeking to discredit her. Although there were some other names, as has been pointed out. Spelling back then frequently changed, and most people on the street where either illiterate, or had a very basic knowledge of spelling,etc. And so it was more based on this name sounding more coarse in prononciation as an insult, rather than spelling. Both ways were no doubt used in spelling, and everyday language, but Boleyn was no doubt more elegant, and rightly so.

It may be that "Bullen" and "Boleyn" were pronounced identically - exactly how we have no way of knowing!

Please tell me why you think "Bullen" would have sounded more coarse to sixteenth century ears - I don't get it I'm afraid.  

It's possible they were pronounced identically. 16th century English is sometimes hard to approximate to now. But sometimes pronunciation was the same, but people heard it differently, and thus spelled it differently true.  Spelling was usually a case of how do you think it was spelled, and many people coudn't spell all that well. But sometimes pronunciation was different as well.It is a hard subject to sort out.

They may have sounded a little alike, but as today there would have been important differences.  Buhll-en (short, emphasis on the first syllable most likely).  Bow-len (bow-lynne, boo-lynne) longer and more French sounding.